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A look inside politics of Credentials Committee.

by: detroit tiger

Tue Mar 11, 2008 at 12:49:33 PM EDT


Michigan, Florida Options Shrinking

By Reid Wilson

Democrats, faced with two candidates nearly three-quarters of the way to the magic number required to secure their party's presidential nomination, face what can be described as a nightmare scenario. Better positioned for victory in November than any party since 1984, Democrats are close to throwing that advantage away, and options for salvaging a unified party by the late August convention are dwindling.

Florida and Michigan, both states who jumped ahead of the party's pre-approved window in which they were allowed to hold nominating contests, are now casting about for a way to have their delegates seated in Denver this summer. That's not the way their gambit was supposed to go.

When both states' legislators moved their contests to January 15, in Michigan, and January 29, in Florida, they thought they knew exactly what they were doing: While the DNC might strip them of delegates, the eventual nominee would instruct credentials committee members to allow the two states' slates to sit n the convention floor. But that plan did not factor in the possibility of a contested convention.

Now, based on delegate allocation, it looks almost certain that votes to seat the delegations in their current iterations - both overwhelmingly favoring Hillary Clinton - will not exist. Examining the 186 members of the DNC's Credentials Committee, which would decide any contested delegations, the deck is heavily stacked against both states.

Of the twenty eight members DNC chair Howard Dean appointed, five have already voted to strip the states' delegates. Committee chairs Alexis Herman and Jim Roosevelt, along with members Ralph Dawson, Tina Flournoy and Janice Griffin, all served on the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, which decided the punishments for non-compliant states. The remaining twenty three members will likely follow suit and vote to uphold the rules.

Based on results so far, it appears that Barack Obama's team will control at least 68 seats on the credentials committee, after an estimate that is, if anything, generous to Clinton. Clinton's wins have netted her 55 seats, while states that have yet to hold contests -- Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennyslvania, South Dakota, West Virginia and Puerto Rico - have yet to allocate their combined 22 seats. With Dean's selections voting to uphold the rules and Obama's delegates voting in their candidate's interest, 96 delegates would vote to keep Michigan and Florida out.

While the committee is slated to have 186 members casting 183 votes (delegates from the territories are given a quarter of a vote, though all four voted for Obama, suggesting they will cast their combined one committee vote for him), Florida's and Michigan's combined 14 delegates are still allowed at the convention, but they cannot vote on matters involving their own states.

Even assuming Florida votes to seat Michigan's delegates and vice versa, the coalition voting against Clinton's delegations from both states will likely add up to more than half of the remaining 180 votes (with Florida delegates voting) and 178 votes (with Michigan delegates included). Obama can't use that majority to seat a friendlier delegate slate, though, as Clinton would benefit from Dean's contingent, again voting to uphold the rules rather than in her favor, and could block new delegate slates.

In short, the only ways for Florida and Michigan to find their seats on the convention floor would be for the Clinton and Obama camps to reach a deal and together outvote Dean's credentials committee faction; or for the two states to hold some kind of revote, either a primary or a caucus.

A caucus in either state is unlikely to fly. Clinton, who has found herself at a disadvantage in those contests, has already declared she will not accept caucuses. The New York Senator also has an advantage on the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, through which any new Florida and Michigan plans would have to be approved. Twelve of the 28 committee members are publicly backing Clinton, while seven have said they support Obama. Clinton would need just three additional votes to block a caucus plan, and several committee members are said to back Clinton but are withholding public endorsements.

Too, Clinton and Obama are unlikely to come to an agreement on how to split the delegations fairly. Any agreement that advantages Clinton, she will argue, is only fair, since she won both states. But Obama is still free to walk away from that agreement, and he has no reason to accept a plan that puts him at anything resembling a disadvantage. Clinton would probably veto a plan splitting the delegations evenly, which would only make the magic number climb higher, from 2,025 to slightly north of 2,200, making her overall quest more difficult.

That leaves both states contemplating a primary, something that would cost each tens of millions of dollars. The trouble is that neither state has the resources to pay for the primaries, and barring a massive infusion of soft money from wealthy donors, the DNC or the candidates themselves, they won't be able to afford do-over contests.

The DNC option is off the table: Dean offered to pay for alternate primaries last year, but was refused. In a phone call last week with Senator Bill Nelson, of Florida, Dean told Nelson the party could not afford it now; through January 31, the DNC had just over $3 million in the bank, less than one-tenth what contests in both states would cost.

In short, neither Michigan nor Florida will benefit from taking their cases to the credentials committee. Both states will have difficult times financing new primaries, relying on wealthy donors pouring in millions of dollars of soft money, which state parties can accept under campaign finance laws, or on Clinton and Obama donating toward a do-over.

Democrats already caught bad luck when John McCain won the Republican nomination, as the rival party chose the candidate who would be strongest in November. Now, faced with the option of holding new contests in Florida and Michigan or nominating a presidential nominee without input from two key swing states, Democrats are seemingly losing the choice they would clearly prefer, the revotes.

A party whose fortunes looked so brilliant just months ago could be on the brink of the most public collapse since 1968. After riots in Chicago that year, Democrats rewrote their rules to resemble those they operate under today. The rules are clear, and everyone knows what they are. The trouble is that neither candidate seemed to imagine that the rules would actually have to be enforced.

Arcane political party rules are not what voters looking for change want from their candidates. Thanks to two strong, and stubborn, candidates, the Democratic Party is seriously in danger of taking what was once an embarrassment of riches and turning it into a plain old embarrassment.

detroit tiger :: A look inside politics of Credentials Committee.
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Something is wrong here (4.00 / 1)
A couple mistakes with this article...

First, it's obvious the author has no understanding of how we hold caucuses in Michigan.

Second, it's impossible that the DNC only has $3 million in the bank.  I haven't been keeping track of the DNC's fundraising under Howard Dean, but I know that between 2001-2004 when McAuliffe chaired the DNC, the DNC raised more than $535 million.  And that was when Democrats didn't control the House or the Senate.  Going into an election year, $3 million can't be possible.  Even $30 million would be a very low amount.


great, but despite all that (4.00 / 2)
is Obama interested in democracy and helping the Michigan Democratic Party?  If not, screw him.

I still hope he wises up on this -- NYT said yesterday Daschle said they'd go along with what the MDP and DNC decided, but now I'm hearing about this idiotic 50-50 split idea which sucks to all get out.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast


Solomon Decision (4.00 / 2)
Some pundits and Sen. Dodd are calling the 50/50 split the Solomon Decision.  Apparently many of them haven't read the Bible.  Solomon's celebrated wisdom came from his decision against cutting the baby in half, despite the suggestion of one of the prostitutes that this would be a fair way to resolve the issue.  Instead, he gave the baby to the prostitute who wanted it to live.

[ Parent ]
Dem. candidate will carry Michigan regardless (0.00 / 0)
The most absurd argument that I've read about this whole mess:

That somehow, if the delegates aren't seated, it will be such an insult to the MI Dems., that it will open the door for McCain to carry the state in November.

The Democratic nominee will carry Michigan, and, most likely, lose Florida. The Kerry/Gore Electoral map will stay intact.

The best thing to do, is to send a full delegation to Denver, let them hang out and party, and, then seat them after the nominee is chosen.


"Those who attempt to censor free speech by filtering the Internet, are... the... TRUE... "tiny cats" of cyberspace."


I'd normally agree with this, but... (4.00 / 1)
I've been talking to constituents for the past week and they are very angry about Michigan and Florida not being seated.  Some blame the MDP, some blame Dean, most don't know who to blame, but the anger over the Michigan Democratic electorate on this issue is very real.  It's isn't party activists I'm talking about.  It's the average Jane and average Joe Democrats.  And if it continues from now until the convention in August where you can bet CNN will make a big deal out of Michigan and Florida not being there during the call of the states, it very well could cause the loss of both Michigan and Florida in November.  This has the potential of being the most viewed convention in American history.  Given, there's still a lot of time between now and the convention and a lot of things could happen.  But it is very possible that Democrats will lose Michigan over this issue.

[ Parent ]
I've been debating this very point in my own mind- (0.00 / 0)
It seems to me that most rank and file Democratic and Independent voters probably don't care whether a bunch of Michigan activists and party leaders get to go to Denver or not.

Now, very many voters called our county office in the days leading up to Jan. 15, as they started to pay attention and realize that they could not vote for their candidate. Many of these swore never to vote Democratic again.

Hopefully, most of them will think twice and come around. Those that don't - that damage is done, and there is no way to put that toothpaste back in the tube. But while I continue to hear grumbling about this, I don't hear it about specifically what Brady relates - anger about not being seated.

On the other hand, perhaps when the convention happens, it will serve as a huge reminder, and re-awaken and solidify the anger many Democrats had (including me) at the original disenfranchisement debacle.

Will this be enough to cost us Michigan? On the whole, I think not... but there is no way to know this far out how close this will be. If it costs us 1%, that could be enough, especially if Clinton manages to do enough damage to Obama in the next month or so before she folds.

God forbid, but how will Carl Levin feel, if he has to face the fact that his most lasting legacy of all his years of public service is eight more years of Republican Presidency?


[ Parent ]
To clarify (4.00 / 2)
The anger I'm hearing isn't about delegates not being seated.  It's that Michigan isn't going to count in the process.  As I said in an earlier post, I don't think anyone except the delegates themselves care if they get to party at the convention center or get nice hotel rooms or not.

[ Parent ]
Seems there is data that shows (0.00 / 0)
McCain will take MI against Hillary but not Obama.  

[ Parent ]
I don't see where you conclude (4.00 / 1)
doing nothing is his best choice...

In fact, given the way the elections have been going, adding back Michigan and Florida will allow Obama to pass the 2025 delegate threshold to secure the nomination outright.

My biggest concern is that the delay on what will be decided is screwing with the district convention date and planning any activities for it...

Sh*t or get off the pot Dem Party leaders!


The number would be around 2,200 (4.00 / 1)
 
I don't see where you conclude
doing nothing is his best choice...
In fact, given the way the elections have been going, adding back Michigan and Florida will allow Obama to pass the 2025 delegate threshold to secure the nomination outright.
Obviously, if Fl and MI are included the magic number is closer to 2,200. Thus, reaching the 2,025 threshold would mean nothing substantial.

"Those who attempt to censor free speech by filtering the Internet, are... the... TRUE... "tiny cats" of cyberspace."

[ Parent ]
NO (0.00 / 0)
the number is 2025 period.

It isn't adjusted because Michigan and Florida violated the rules...it was 2025 before the primary, is 20205 now and would be 2025 whether MI and FL gets seated or not.

Hence, Obama would be more likely to cross the finish line with MI and FL counting and fall short if they don't.


[ Parent ]
2,208 (0.00 / 0)
If Michigan and Florida are seated, 2,208 will be needed to win the nomination.  This seems to be the agreed upon number showing up all over the internet.  Details in this Kos blog:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...


[ Parent ]
If true (0.00 / 0)
than the 2025 number is and always has been incorrect. There is nothing in the rules that allows for the party to adjust the number based upon rule breaking states as far as I could see...

[ Parent ]
National campaigns (0.00 / 0)
You could very well be right on the party rule point.  The 2,025 is the 1/2 half the total delegates +1 if Michigan's and Florida's delegates are not counted.  I understand now what you meant last week when you asked why the Clinton campaign would want a do-over (if the threshhold to win the nomination wasn't increasing).  Both the campaigns are currently behaving as if that threshold would increase.

[ Parent ]
Polls mean nothing at this point (0.00 / 0)
Seems there is data that shows  
McCain will take MI against Hillary but not Obama.  

No state poll taken before the conclusion of both conventions is worth it's salt. Individual state polls will only start to become relevant in mid-September.

As to the potential matchups in MI:

In the Hillary v McCain matchup, the conventional wisdom is that it will come down to lower-scale white voters (i.e., Reagan Democrats), i still think, even with this dynamic, Hillary can carry the state.

In the Obama v McCain matchup, obviously an historically energized black vote will carry the day for Obama.

Still, i find it hard to believe, given the economic situation of the last 8 years, that any Michigan "Democrat" would vote for someone (McCain), essentially, running for a 3rd Bush term.  

"Those who attempt to censor free speech by filtering the Internet, are... the... TRUE... "tiny cats" of cyberspace."


Bush nearly won here in 2004 (4.00 / 1)
against a unified, motivated Democratic Party.  

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson


[ Parent ]
Slightly (0.00 / 0)
Using their combined vote totals as the denominator to eliminate the Nader affect:

Bush received 47.4% in 2000 and 48.3% in 2004. There are any number of variables that could explain that increase, chief among them the incumbent affect.

Gore had it in 2000 and Bush had it in 2004.

Besides, we didn't have the grass roots infrastructure that we have now...something tells me we are going to kick so ass...


[ Parent ]
Obviously the number would increase (4.00 / 1)
Both the campaigns are currently behaving as if that threshold would increase.
That's because it would.

"Those who attempt to censor free speech by filtering the Internet, are... the... TRUE... "tiny cats" of cyberspace."


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