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Stupak Delegate Plan

by: Brady

Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 16:19:47 PM EDT


The latest, and perhaps best plan short of a re-vote, to seat Michigan's delegates comes from Congressman Bart Stupak.  Stupak, an Edwards supporters suggests seating Michigan's delegates partially based on the January 15 vote and partially based on the national popular vote.

Under the Stupak plan, Clinton would receive 47 delegates based on the January 15 vote.  Obama would receive 36 delegates, which essentially gives him all of the Uncommitted vote including those voters who would have otherwise supported Edwards.  All these delegates would be picked at the Congressional District conventions in April.

The remaining 73 delegates would be split between Clinton and Obama based on the percentage of the popular vote nationwide after all the states vote.  Obama currently leads in the popular vote although Clinton could take the lead in the popular vote dependent on strong showings in Pennsylvania, Indiana and Puerto Rico.  Regardless, these 73 delegates would be almost evenly split.

In exchange for Obama getting pledged delegates from the January 15 election even though he took his name off the ballot, all of Michigan's automatic superdelegates would be seated (including Stupak).

"The last thing we want to do as Democrats is to disenfranchise voters," Stupak wrote in the letter to DNC Chair Howard Dean. "I have heard from countless Democratic and independent voters who are frustrated and angry to think that their votes are being ignored."

Stupak said in an interview that a redo vote in Michigan was a "dead deal" and he hoped party leaders would support an alternative. He discussed his plan with Clinton and Obama supporters in Michigan. "No one discouraged me," he said.

Since Edwards left the race, Stupak has remained neutral.

Brady :: Stupak Delegate Plan
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Florida Update (4.00 / 1)
I forget to add to the diary that the latest proposal coming out of Florida would be to seat all of the Sunshine State's delegates based on their January 29 election counting each delegate as a half delegate including the votes of the automatic delegates.  This proposal is being championed by Democratic Sen. Ben Nelson.

So, the Michigan and Florida compromises would essentially produce a situation where neither those states nor the DNC loses face.  The election results in both states are counted but only by roughly half the weight they would have had if they had waited until February.

Still no mention from the DNC yet about any real primary reform for future elections, although after the mess of 2008, some time of reform is virtually certain.


What's an "automatic delegate"? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Clintonese for superdelegate / PLEO (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
It's the correct term for a "super" delegate. (0.00 / 0)
Because they automatically get to go to the Convention.  The term "superdelegate" was created by an opponent to their creation and quickly picked up by the media.

Hillary speaks for me.

[ Parent ]
Odd (4.00 / 1)
They've been referred to as Super Delegates for decades. Now this campaign cycle the Clinton people started calling them Automatic Delegates.

Where's the citation for who the opponent was that created the term Super Delegate. This is the first I've heard anywhere that the term was created by an opponent.


[ Parent ]
That's a good question rich (0.00 / 0)
but I's also like to know where the official language is that refers to them as super delegates. What exactly does the DNC call them so we can end the bickering about what we are suppose to call them. When I mention them I usually refer to them by both names to head off any arguing  but is either actually right?

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson


[ Parent ]
This explanation is at odds with the English language (0.00 / 0)
Super isn't just the answer to, "How's your day going," it's also a prefix generally meaning over and above ... i.e. supermajority.  A superdelegate is a delegate over and above those generated by the regular process, in this case the regular process happens to be primaries and caucuses.

Again, trying to rewrite the English language for the benefit of a candidate is a very good way to turn people off.  Then again, turning people off has been the standard operating procedure for Camp Clinton from Day One.

Among the Trees


[ Parent ]
Get it together folks (4.00 / 3)
Time to get it together folks and stop all this infighting. While the Democratic party seems to be stuck on stupid - arguing over whether to count votes or not - McCain is leading in the polls:

McCain is also running a close race with the Democrats in Michigan, according to the Rasmussen survey conducted March 25. He leads Obama 43 percent to 42 percent, and Clinton by 45 percent to 42 percent, with a 4.5 percent margin of error.

McCain is viewed favorably by 55 percent of voters, Obama by 50 percent and Clinton by 47 percent. This is a state the Democrats have carried in the last four elections. It is also one of the two states (the other being Florida) where the controversy continues over the Democratic Party's decision to strip both of their delegates for breaking party rules by moving up the dates of their primaries. Forty-five percent of Michigan Democrats say there should be some kind of a re-vote, while 39 percent disagree.

I wonder how much of McCain's bump in the polls is because of people getting turned off of the endless bickering between Clinton & McCain camps? It surely can't be because Americans agree to another 100 years in Iraq!

Nothing is easier than solving a problem on the back of the poor. People who don't have lobbyists or clout.


Forgot the link (4.00 / 2)
Sorry.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/200...

Nothing is easier than solving a problem on the back of the poor. People who don't have lobbyists or clout.

[ Parent ]
It's a good plan...BUT... (0.00 / 0)
...I can't imagine that Clinton would agree to it.

She's better off trying to get the delegates seated "as is".

It's hard to imagine, that after all her posturing, she'd accept a deal out of Michigan that nets her only a handful of delegates.

"Those who attempt to censor free speech by filtering the Internet, are... the... TRUE... "tiny cats" of cyberspace."


Joint agreement (0.00 / 0)
You make a very good point.  Perhaps it could be agreed to along with Nelson's Florida plan which is more favorable to her in Florida than Stupak's plan is to her in Michigan.

[ Parent ]
I've been saying (0.00 / 0)
I'd be good with such a thing for some time now.  No surprise Congressman Stupak came up with such a sensible plan.  ;-)

Julie

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.


I understand what Stupak (4.00 / 1)
is trying to do.  But I didn't vote for Barack Obama on 15 January -- so this plan effectively "changes" my vote.  It's a non-starter.

Just hold a MDP-run caucus like you should have from the beginning and don't worry about the candidates.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast


It's basically the same as 50-50 pledged delegates (0.00 / 0)
Only, instead of Hillary being ahead based strictly off  superdelegates, she'd be ahead based off "pledged delegates from a compromise" -- good for Hillary.  But.. there'd potentially be less wiggle room when it came to the Michigan delegation -- good for Obama.

This provides all sorts of political cover to Michigan politicians.  They're not made to look like total idiots for moving the primary up.  They're not made to look like they're being partisan hacks because "the Stupak deal forced me to be for such-and-such a candidate".  

Besides the two campaigns, I wonder:

1) How do the 29 superdelegates feel?  Would they all sign up for "let the popular vote % decide" (assuming we knew how to count that nationally)?  Would they sign up for "let the pledged delegate % decide"?  Do we have a sense (if not absolute certainty) of who breaks for Obama and Hillary?

2) What's the DNC's reaction to such a deal?  I could believe they wouldn't want a solution that directly legitimizes the January 15th election, or gives the full # of delegates (especially supers) to a rules breaker who never held a proper vote.  

3) How this plays out among the state's population?  If I'm a would-be Democratic primary voter who didn't vote in the Democratic priamary because my politicians were stupid, this plan bails out the Michigan politicians far more than it makes my voice heard.  What's the ammo for Republicans?


And now we have Howard Dean saying that Florida will be seated: (0.00 / 0)
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI...

But no mention of Michigan?

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson



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