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AP: No Democracy for Democrats in Michigan

by: philgoblue

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 19:44:04 PM EDT


(Well, it's official. - promoted by ScottyUrb)

Well, apparently it's happened, Mark Brewer and the Michigan Democratic Party were unable to accomplish the basic task of holding an election for our delegates to the National Convention in Denver.  The leadership of the MDP has proven itself completely incompetent -- no election, no campaigns, no discussion of Michigan issues, no movement to change the primary calendar.  With or without delegates, this is a complete and total failure.  So, it's time to head to your county clerk office, pick up a form and run for MDP Precinct Delegate so you can vote at your County Party Convention and the State Party Convention against Brewer, Dingell, and anyone who sat on the Central Committee during this farse.

The AP report:

Michigan Democrats are expected to decide Friday against holding a do-over presidential election, The Associated Press has learned.

The state party's executive committee is expected to hold a meeting by phone to vote on a statement saying any kind of election to replace the results of the January 15 primary no longer is possible, according to Democratic leaders who spoke on condition of anonymity because the discussions so far have been private....

Presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton supported holding a second election so the delegates could be seated, but rival Barack Obama feared problems [meaning, squashed all attempts at democracy in Michigan -- pgb].

State Democrats now hope the two campaigns can agree on a way to split Michigan's 128 pledged delegates so they can be seated at the Aug. 25-28 convention in Denver....

The state Democratic Party already has pushed back the date for choosing national convention delegates to April 19, hoping the matter can be resolved before delegates are chosen.

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean and four top Michigan Democrats who have been trying to work out a way to get the delegates seated are expected to put out a statement Friday after the executive committee vote.

In the statement, they're expected to say the DNC is committed to seating Michigan's delegates at this summer's convention as long as any agreement is supported by the party's two presidential contenders....

A sad day for Michigan Democrats.  We've lost an opportunity to reunify the MDP through a mulligan primary or caucus (blame: Obama), because this unity was harmed by the January 15 strawpoll powerplay (blame: Hillary, Granholm, D. Dingell, Levin and Brewer's weakness).  And what will be the harm?  Unenthusiastic activists, unmobilized voters who didn't get a chance to get excited by a primary campaign and hear the Democratic brand, and fewer memberships and donations.  And this all leads to an opening for McCain to win Michigan (remember Kerry won by a mere 3% and for all McCain's faults, he isn't George Bush), harms our chances of retaining the State House, and prevents any coat-tail tidal wave at the county level because of low Democratic turnout.

Someone must stand up in opposition to Brewer-Dingell.  Anyone listening?
philgoblue :: AP: No Democracy for Democrats in Michigan
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AP: No Democracy for Democrats in Michigan | 126 comments
Good luck (2.67 / 3)
Good luck finding someone to oust Brewer.  He is too strong and too smart. So which one of the gutless internet tough guys are going to take up the gauntlet and run?

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
hmmm (4.00 / 5)
I will say that it would be difficult to oust Brewer. But who exactly are you referring to as gutless internet tough guys? I would guess you mean anyone of the male gender here? The assumption that all someone does to further the cause is blog is pretty ill informed in many cases. Especially around here.

"Kill the headlights and put it in neutral..."
[ Parent ]
This is one of the most absurd questions I've seen here, (4.00 / 6)
and given the competition, that's saying something.

I told Mark Brewer to his face that this would be a disaster, back in October, at caucus training in Cass County. Given the opportunity, I would be happy to remind him of that conversation.

That does not mean I (unlike phil) hold him personally responsible; I see Sen. Levin, Ms. Dingell, and Gov. Granholm as the main forces behind this, with plenty of help. The Chair went along for the ride. Also unlike phil (below), I see plenty of good things that our Chair has accomplished, to be set against his acquiescing to this disaster.

But let's say I agreed with phil on this. To then call us 'gutless' because we were unwilling to run against him ourselves is risible. It's about like saying that my opinion that the Iraq war is a disaster can be discounted unless I can somehow stop it single-handedly.

[ Parent ]
Absurd? (1.67 / 3)
Bullshit. There is a big difference between telling Brewer to his face that the primary would be a disaster and some of the hateful, venomous rhetoric that i have seen here.

All I am saying is that if you are not an internet tough guy you rhetoric needs to be consistent both in action, word and deed.

And anyone that bitches about Brewer and the party leadership on the internet without organizing at the precinct level to oust him is an internet tough guy.

The only way to rid yourself of Brewer is to oust him via having more delegates than him.

Look at the party history.  Thats how people like Soapy Williams and Neil Stabler did it and if it was good enough for them, it should be good enough for you.

Wheres the campaign to get rid of Brewer? Until I see some organization I am calling the critics bullshit artists.

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

[ Parent ]
Ann Tee (3.25 / 8)
You seem to be the one on this thread with the most over emotional language. Why call people names? Is this your form of entertainment? Why not do a diary yourself on party history and the role of precinct delegates? Or since you say below that Brewer and Dingell were "dead on" and that you are a Brewer supporter, why not write a diary defending the decision and convince others here with logic and reason? You seem to have a lot to share so why not put the extra effort into doing a diary instead of taking pot shots at people? Still waiting for your diary on Black History. Today would be an excellent day to do one.

What would Eleanor Roosevelt do?
[ Parent ]
Diary (1.25 / 4)
I quit writing diaries when I put away my Barbies.

Thanks for the thoughts

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

[ Parent ]
why are you here then? n/m (3.50 / 6)


What would Eleanor Roosevelt do?
[ Parent ]
you have a short memory (3.67 / 9)
Please don't put words in my mouth. (4.00 / 1)
I know i am not a member of your little clique but you should treat me with the same decency and respect that you would give anyone else.  Thanks for making me feel so at home here.
A sincere thanks to JPowers155.  Because of her encouragement I will be submitting my first diary on a member of the african-american community who has inspired me.

And a special thanks to the few members of michigan liberal who sent me friend invites on myspace!

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
by: Ann Tee @ Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 11:20:18 AM EST



What would Eleanor Roosevelt do?
[ Parent ]
Pwnd. (4.00 / 3)
By sweet, innocent Janeen of all people...
[ Parent ]
That (4.00 / 2)
was funny.  
[ Parent ]
I don't think we're really all that far apart (4.00 / 2)
Mark.

I acknowledge that Brewer has had successes -- we do have the State House afterall and he gets some credit for helping Granholm get elected and reelected.  I'm happy to acknowledge that your take on this is based on a longer history with the MDP than I have.

I agree Granholm-Dingell and Levin are primarily responsible, but I believe that a Party Chair should have had the power to simply say "no, guys, we're not doing this" back on 1 December when the push completely failed with the DNC had sanctioned the MDP 100% and the candidates weren't coming (remember then Granholm was still promising us they'd come -- ha). It's the weakness of the chair that I'm most concerned about (or the inability to use what power he does have).  Is it possible to have a Chair that can stand up to a governor?  I don't know.  But one should be able to stand up to a term-limited governor when you've got the DNC and state grassroots on your side and when you're fighting for the franchise for Michigan Democrats.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
Can't argue with that. (4.00 / 2)
Especially since right in the Delegate Selection Plan is:

3. Following the adoption of this Delegate Selection Plan by the Michigan Democratic State Central
Committee, it shall be submitted for review and approval by the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee
(RBC). The Chair shall be empowered to make any revisions to this document as required by the
RBC to correct any omissions and/or deficiencies as found by the RBC to ensure its full compliance
with Party Rules. Such revisions shall be made by the Chair and the Plan resubmitted to the RBC
within 30 days of receipt of notice of the RBC's findings.

(emphasis mine)

... which Plan was passed by the Executive Committee previously, so he had the authority and the duty to act.

[ Parent ]
i disagree (4.00 / 1)
If it were just the gov, you'd probably be right, the chair should be able to stand up to any single member in the party, but this is a different situation.

Brewer got teamed up on.  It's good that he can't make a decision by himself, because if he could, he would have handedall of michigan's delegates to edwards (which i imagine you would support) without even holding an election (which i think you would oppose).

[ Parent ]
Gutless internet tough guys (2.25 / 4)
The gutless internet tough guys are the people who:

1) don't have the guts to place their name in opposition to Brewer in an election for Chair

2) refuse to use the same venom to Brewer's face that they use on their blogs or internet postings.

If you do either of these two things than you are a gutless internet tough guy.


Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Waiting on you, then. (3.00 / 6)
Step up and show us how it's done!
[ Parent ]
Sorry (1.33 / 3)
I am a long time supporter of Brewer and think he and Mrs. Dingell were dead on about an early primary.

My point is some people on this site and on other like Kos are really cutting and venomous towards others but are pussycats when face to face with the object of their venom.

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

[ Parent ]
you should have seen the face-to-face (4.00 / 3)
criticism of Brewer when he came to Grand Rapids.  And Brewer admitted then that he was hearing criticisms all across Michigan.

Sorry nl, you're simply flat out wrong.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
Long-time? (4.00 / 6)
How does a 23-year-old qualify as a long-time supporter?
[ Parent ]
Time is relative. (4.00 / 1)
Years ago, I remember a seven year old nephew saying he had loved a toy "forever". Which was true. For him.
[ Parent ]
It's simple (3.12 / 8)
she may in all probability not be a she...and not 23.

In other words...she is simply someone pretending to be something she is not...perhaps she is an internet tough guy.

It would explain all the first hand knowledge.

My guess, she's a 70-year old retired party hack who smells of cigars...

[ Parent ]
Now that this is over... (4.00 / 6)
How about we start working on McCain?
Better idea (4.00 / 3)
That would be a more appropriate expenditure of time, effort and money. I scratch my head in amazement at those who cling to the old divide and conquer mentality.

"Hey, why spend time fighting republicans when we can just run down to the county clerk and tear each other down!" Yeah! THAT oughta win us a bunch of elections!

Nothing is easier than solving a problem on the back of the poor. People who don't have lobbyists or clout.

[ Parent ]
The current leadership has completely (2.50 / 4)
failed: they failed on the Supreme Court races, failed to gain a single US House seat in the tidal wave of 2006, failed to retake the State Senate in 2006 because of poor funding situations, and now have completely failed to create a primary that has left membership down and discouraged -- now yvette, that doesn't win elections.

Unity is great, but you don't unite around incompetence.

Failures should not be rewarded.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
You've got a point (4.00 / 3)
But we still have a republican to beat.... who is currently LEADING in the polls. Are we going to do anything about that?

Nothing is easier than solving a problem on the back of the poor. People who don't have lobbyists or clout.
[ Parent ]
Perhaps we could (4.00 / 1)
but we're still too busy fighting our little nomination fight, since a certain Senator won't get it through her head that mathematically she doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell. Once she drops out (which may be in August) we can scramble around and maybe put up a feeble fight against McCain.
[ Parent ]
Totally off-topic (4.00 / 3)
Your post was totally of the subject, PS. Follow along with the rest of us.

(smooches)

Nothing is easier than solving a problem on the back of the poor. People who don't have lobbyists or clout.

[ Parent ]
Er... (4.00 / 3)
You're lucky I like you, because that's probably the most condescending thing I've ever read on a blog (at least that was directed at me.)
[ Parent ]
Just kidding with you (4.00 / 4)
It was written firmly tongue in cheek. You know I like you too ;-)

Nothing is easier than solving a problem on the back of the poor. People who don't have lobbyists or clout.
[ Parent ]
As a point of history (4.00 / 4)
Dukakis was leading Bush by 20% at one point.

I wouldn't focus on polls too much right now. But we do need to do work.

The most important thing that would help is to clear up all the missing data in the VAN.

We have over 100,000 voters with unknown data in Saginaw County alone...

Phone bank and door knock starting this month in key precincts (or all if you have the person power).

[ Parent ]
Yep. (4.00 / 3)
Time to suck it up and get to work.
[ Parent ]
If you're looking for a perfect politician... (4.00 / 5)
You'll be disappointed with your local guys, too.  They're not perfect.

I expect Barack (or Hillary) to screw up often as President.  I just know they'll screw up a lot less than McCain.  They're also less likely to get me killed.

[ Parent ]
I'm not looking for perfect (4.00 / 1)
I'm just looking for candidates who are for democracy.  It's a fairly minimal requirement.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
[ Parent ]
Last I checked... (4.00 / 3)
Democracy involves the general election, not the primary.  Dean could've picked the candidate by taking a name out of the hat if the Democratic leadership was okay with it.
[ Parent ]
Besides... (4.00 / 3)
If a primary is more important to you than getting out of Iraq, fixing our economy and healthcare system....
[ Parent ]
meh (0.00 / 0)
It's all about winning, and democracy helps us win.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
[ Parent ]
You're Right (4.00 / 2)
We're fighting a war in Iraq for "Democracy".  Why can't Obama understand that Michigan voting twice is the key to solving our problems? I understand that if we vote again then all working class people will be treated with dignity and racism will end.  It's time to end this academic exercise and get to work winning.  I for one have time for local candidates and statewide and national candidates.  So I'm going to use the "I'm working for locals" cop out.  Are you ready to get on the bus or sit at the bus stop and let history pass you by?
[ Parent ]
Being a republic helps us win too (0.00 / 0)
Being a republic, a nation of laws, is at the heart of why our nation is "We The People" and not simply the democratic "We the 50%+1".  What we're seeing is a classic conflict over rules and representation.  The fact that we can have this disagreement and discussion without the military being invoked is part of what makes our nation great.


[ Parent ]
technically true (4.00 / 1)
but is this something you really want to argue?

It's been very sad to hear folks make arguments against democracy because they think it helps the short-term interests of a candidate.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
Like I said... (4.00 / 2)
Democracy applies to general elections, not primaries.  And nothing would've changed when it was over.  Hillary wouldn't have earned enough delegates to take any signifigant lead, so there is no short term interest of a candidate here.

I don't want to argue this.  I want us to move on.  My fellow Soldiers are dying while we complain about delegates in a state that never had a real chance to pick a candidate, anyway.

[ Parent ]
I never thought anything (4.00 / 2)
would top Grebner's stupid thing as the dumbest thing I have ever heard, but you, yes you my friend, have taken the cake for that.  On so many levels this post is ignorant of campaigns are really won and loss.  Wow.  

Notice you didn't bring up taking back the House.  Or Eaton County.  Or the Governor.

[ Parent ]
Have you actually read my article? (4.00 / 3)
Do you disagree with the analysis?  If you do, you should share your critique.
[ Parent ]
Disagree (1.33 / 3)
I don't disagree with the analysis. Its the obvious disdain you hold working people in that I find offensive. Just cause someone lives and works in a inner ring suburb does not make them "stupid".

I guess it might seem that way from the ivory tower of East Lansing.

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

[ Parent ]
You are making up every reference to "worker" or "union". (4.00 / 2)
It's basically a lie.  Can you cite a single thing that I've said?  Other than orally using the word "stupid" in a context that has nothing to do with any specific group?  Have you ever used the word "stupid"?  That word - which MIRS pulled out of a long oral interview - wasn't addressed even to residents of Michigan.

The article is posted on this site.  Find some words in it that are offensive, or else stop slandering me, OK?

It is bizarre that you - or anybody else - would publicly spread something so dishonest.  Do you get around the sense of shame by hiding behind a pseudonym?

[ Parent ]
Actually (1.33 / 3)
the letter i read was not anonymous. it was signed by Mark Gaffney.

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
[ Parent ]
I mean your comments are "anonymous". (2.50 / 4)
I've added you to the very short list of people to whom I do not respond unless there is a specific need to.
[ Parent ]
Can you provide the letter? n/t (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
Yes...you refer to a group of people, (4.00 / 2)
a group of the Democratic base as stupid.  It doesn't matter who you were talking about, it shows a disdain for a group of people who we as Liberals fight to stand up for as well as an arrogance and I'm better than you attitude.

[ Parent ]
Have you read the article, or are you just repeating somebody else? (4.00 / 3)
"It doesn't matter who you were talking about"?  That seems like a pretty high standard for discourse - that an off-hand comment that has the word "stupid" should "prove" that I'm anti-anything.  What it really proves is that some people have their minds made up and are only in search of enough "evidence" that they can make into a mud-ball and fling.

For other readers - not for you, since you've explained it doesn't matter to you - I might mention the actual context.  I ask myself exactly how did Alabama go from the most Democratic state in the county fifty years ago, to the third most Republican today?  What is specific to Alabama that would make it swing more violently than anywhere else?  Contrast Alabama and the other states in the Deep South with the states swinging especially far in the opposite direction - Massachusetts, Illinois, Vermont, California.  What single dimension separate the two groups?

That's what the essay published in MIRS looks at, exploring the movements using Michigan data.  That essay doesn't use the word "stupid", "labor", "employee", or "union".  It looks at the township by township voting trends, and tries to relate them to demographics.  The theory I develop fits the data quite well, but has not previously be put forth in the same form.

Sorry to interrupt you with facts.  Please go back to your mud-slinging.

[ Parent ]
I get it (4.00 / 1)
If I'm not mistaken, Bush won white voters with no college or no high school diploma in 2004.  You are right to point out that the Democratic and Republican parties are flip-flopping states from 40-50 years ago.  It seems that we sometimes assume that "poor" people are/should be Democrats but issues such as abortion, guns and others may cause them to vote otherwise.  Here is my question: In 2004, Bush got approx. 40% of the union vote, my neighbor is both an evangelical christian and union member, do pollsters take into account voters that meet two or more criteria that don't normally match up politically.  Such as Union Member/Evangelical or African American making over 300,000 dollars?
[ Parent ]
Generally, everything is analyzed as simple cross-tabs. (4.00 / 1)
That is, each comparison is broken down into two dimensions only, say, union/party, or age/vote-for-president.  More complex models are best analyzed using "regression models", which are hard to explain and require large datasets to derive anything very useful.

Sometimes we break out a third dimension, such as race-by-gender-by-party, but the number of interviews that fall into a given cell are so small that it's hard to draw solid conclusions.

For typical polling, the sample sizes range from maybe 300 to 1200.  To use multidimensional linear models, it would be good to have thousands or tens of thousands of data points.  Very expensive.

[ Parent ]
Shouldn't you be (3.00 / 3)
checking in on your database workers in India?  How many employees in the States do you have these days?
[ Parent ]
And now it comes out... (3.25 / 4)
So that's what's irking people in MI Dem Party circles. Grebner has paid researchers in India...That's why you've got such a big axe to grind against him: he's failing the Michigan Purity Test.

Sounds like a perfectly sound way to evaluate people in this globalized world we live in.

Never mind he's been a loyal Democrat for probably longer than you've been alive.

[ Parent ]
That is disgusting, Grebner. (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
Why? (4.00 / 3)
Read his explanation.
[ Parent ]
Grebner's explanation is not as exalted as your explanation: "a way to evaluate people in this globalized world" is it? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Which means what? n/t (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
Say hello to our next President! (4.00 / 3)
john mccain

Because while the right is getting their act together and getting organized, you guys are too busy fighting with each other over stuff that ISN'T GOING TO MATTER A YEAR FROM NOW!

Grebner might have or might not have said something dumb.  I don't know.  What I do know is that it's not half as dumb as saying we're going to be in Iraq for 100 years.  It's not as dumb as saying your plan for the economy is to do jack squat!

We've gotten so used to griping back and forth at each other for so long that some of us forgot that WE'RE ON THE SAME SIDE!  And the longer we keep going like this, the better McCain's poll numbers are going to look.  So for the love of Pete, get your heads out of your fourth point of contact, kiss and make up, and get your priorities straight!

P.S.  This is comment number 100.  I was told I win a pony.  Where do I pick it up?

[ Parent ]
PPC's workforce. (3.62 / 8)
How many employees in the US? Right now, because I have some temporary employees, the count is quite high - about 25, I think. My base, full-time, permanent employee count is about 14. And how many workers do you employ?

To answer your first question, the firm I work with in Bangalore is currently keying the Medical Marijuana petitions, a project that simply wouldn't be done here in the US.  The petitions hold 500,000 names, and it would cost roughly $100,000 to key them here.  If I don't do it in India, it won't get done, so it's not a question of shipping "our" jobs overseas.

Why am I sure the work wouldn't get done?  Because I wouldn't do it, and nobody else keys signatures from large statewide petitions in Michigan.  If you doubt me, please think of a large petition that somebody else has keyed.  The cost of keying the Medical Marijuana petitions in India will be roughly $50,000, over half of which pays for labor performed by PPC employees in East Lansing.

For what it's worth, if you're concerned that the work I send to India is undermining the Michigan petition checking industry, please note that I ALREADY employ the entire Michigan petition-checking workforce - about three full-time equivalents.  Their time is devoted to jobs that are smaller, require closer supervision, or need very fast turn-around.  During slack times, we drop our overseas contract and have all our work done here.

Petition checking is so episodic that additional workers would only have employment about 30% of the time.  Laying them off in India when the work runs out is less of a problem, because they return to other (lower-paying) projects on which they usually work.  There are only an average of three statewide initiative petitions filed per 24-month cycle, and the work needs to be completed within a few months of filing or the data will be too late to use.

You didn't ask, but PPC pays the Indian firm roughly US minimum wage for the work.  My guess is that the workers receive roughly $2 per hour of that.

When we take on work for clients, we always ask whether they want the work done in the US, or will allow us to job it out.  We've had to reject some large jobs when the client insisted on a US workforce - we just can't afford to keep large numbers of trained workers sitting around in case we get a rush job that would require them.

[ Parent ]
Thanks (4.00 / 4)
for taking the time to explain how your operation works. And for sharing all the other information that you do. Much appreciated.

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson
[ Parent ]
Yes indeed (4.00 / 3)
Mark Grebner's insights are one of the best resources of ML.
[ Parent ]
Thanks (4.00 / 2)
I appreciate your insight

"Kill the headlights and put it in neutral..."
[ Parent ]
MCCC knows this work has been outsourced? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Welcome to the 21st Century! (0.00 / 0)
Work is outsourced.  There is no candidate running to end globalization.  So let's get off one guys back for being successful in the broader market.
[ Parent ]
Give me a break ... we aren't discussing Amway here. (0.00 / 0)
For some time now I have read the derisive remarks that Mark Grebner has been making about the MDP not appreciating or adopting the plan he has for the MDP's delegate selection plan.

Grebner reported that the MDP made costly changes to the plan ... could outsourcing have something to do with it?


[ Parent ]
thanks Dick DeVos (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Who is MCCC? (0.00 / 0)
I'm sorry to be so slow, but who are they?  Do I work for them?  And is their work outsourced?

[ Parent ]
I'll check with the Diane Byrum and get back to you. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Ever hear of temp agencies? (4.00 / 2)
There are 21 temp agencies listed in the Lansing area phone book who have trained workers standing by to key hundreds of thousands of datasets on a daily basis.  Yes, you would have to pay over twice as much to have the work done but the money would stay in the mid-Michigan area.

"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." -- Harry S Truman
[ Parent ]
I gotta chuckle (1.80 / 5)
When I see Grebner brag about almost paying minimum wage to the Banglore company he employs and that the workers get 2 bucks an hour.

What a humanitarian you are.

Its not like you are sitting on one of the biggest pools of politically active temp pools in the state.


Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

[ Parent ]
I too chuckle (4.00 / 1)
If you're politically active and hoping to make ends meet based on that, you better not be relying on temp work.

I've pulled temp duty several times, and it is always a mercenary experience -- you make as much money in as short time as possible because you have no idea when the next work will roll around.  The only time you get choosy is when you can start negotiating gigs that pay long-term.  Thirty percent employment time, I'm sorry to say, just doesn't promise to pay the rent the other 70 percent of the time.

Those folks who Grebner says he employs are not American Democrats or even necessarily people of liberal persuasion, but people who have skills to sell on a short-term basis and who see an American client with an above-average salary to offer.

Pictures from unemployment.

Among the Trees

[ Parent ]
Temp workers don't have the needed level of training (1.00 / 1)
PPC doesn't do brute-force keypunch.  Our approach to data entry requires judgment and training.  The level of skills offered by temps - or even by people who have done data entry for other firms - doesn't really help much.  If it were easy for me to explain here, I suppose it wouldn't be so hard to train people to do it.

Every data job we get, we figure out a way to take advantage of pre-existing data and/or redundancies within the documents we're working with.  For many jobs, we write specific computer code to take advantage of particular features of the documents.

This may seem fussy, but it works.  PPC's accuracy level is much higher than our supposed peers.  And our charges are generally comparable or lower.  In the U.S., our data staff has an average tenure around ten years.  In Bangalore, I don't know any of the workers, but I do know that it took several months before they reached acceptable accuracy levels, and even now we only send very narrowly defined work - they just aren't flexible enough to adapt.  They've been doing petition work for us almost eight years, and I think they have an entire training manual devoted to us.  

I would guess anybody who expects a temp agency to furnish staff which can begin work after minimal training hasn't ever run a successful business.

[ Parent ]
So only unsuccessful businesses expect... (4.00 / 1)
..."a temp agency to furnish staff which can begin work after minimal training"?  Wow, I had no idea that Lansing-area employers that use temps after minimal training -- such as EDS and John Henry -- were unsuccessful.

"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." -- Harry S Truman
[ Parent ]
Arrogance, eh? (3.40 / 5)
Like this kind?

Why should we have to listen to rules  (4.00 / 2)
made by and for states that couldn't elect a ticket of Jesus/Ghandi against a Republican statewide.  That's crap.

In state, we decided how we wanted to handle our business.  And that is what it is, our business.  Not the Wyoming Democratic Party, not the Massachusetts Democratic Party, not the Iowa Democratic Party.  We are the Michigan Clinton/Clinton/Gore/and even Kerry Democratic Party and on January 15th, we spoke.

You have a clear disdain for the rest of the country. Outside of the Michigan bubble, no one wants to see delegates allocated based on the Jan. 15th primary seated and counted at the convention.

And there are plenty of us members of this Michigan Democratic party who thought moving up the primary was a ridiculously stupid idea. It looks even dumber now that there's a real nominating contest, which we would have been able to have a voice in had we held a primary or caucus in February.

Why don't you do your boss a favor and quit shitting so much on other Democrats and do the work you're paid to be doing. Or is this part of your job, too?

[ Parent ]
That fight will be much harder now (0.00 / 0)
honestly, I'm going to expend my energy on Brandon Dillon, Robert Dean, the Kent County Commission, etc, since I'm not enthusiasic about the state party and not at all enthusiastic about either candidate both of whom deserve the lion's share of blame here.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
[ Parent ]
that's a good thing (4.00 / 1)
don't want to leave the little guys out in the cold.
[ Parent ]
Over?? OVER?! :> (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
The only person that has proven incompetent is Howard Dean (4.00 / 3)
Dean as allowed the political equivalent of Bush's Iraqi quagmire (and not the good giggidy-giggidy kind) to happen, rather than a nominating process.  This doesn't come as a surprise, as just look at what happened to the guys Presidential campaign.

Well, apparently it's happened, Mark Brewer and the Michigan Democratic Party were unable to accomplish the basic task of holding an election for our delegates to the National Convention in Denver.

And perhaps you didn't notice, but we held an election on January 15th and decided how we wanted our delegates allocated.  The only people that seem to be against Democracy are Dean and his DNC, who would rather have it's presidential candidate selection process decided by a bunch of states and state party aparatus that are unable to produce for a Democratic presidential candidate and frankly, Barack Obama, who refused to put his name on the ballot for the people of Michigan, and who's campaign refuses any type re-vote, caucus or deal.

We in Michigan know how to win and how to stay blue.  Brewer kept us blue in 2000 and 2004 and together under Brewer's leadership we sent two GOP gubernatorial jobbers packing and made gains on all levels of government (anyone notice Eaton and Oakland Counties?).  We know what we are doing here in Michigan, and don't need some DNC committee made of a bunch of hacks from red states.

Perhaps you didn't notice (4.00 / 4)
that the stat of Michigan broke the rules which they had agreed to before hand.

Dean's unenviable job is to clean up the mess created by the gang who couldn't shoot straight here in Michigan and Florida.

Sucks, but those are the rules, deal with them.

[ Parent ]
Why should we have to listen to rules (4.00 / 2)
made by and for states that couldn't elect a ticket of Jesus/Ghandi against a Republican statewide.  That's crap.

In state, we decided how we wanted to handle our business.  And that is what it is, our business.  Not the Wyoming Democratic Party, not the Massachusetts Democratic Party, not the Iowa Democratic Party.  We are the Michigan Clinton/Clinton/Gore/and even Kerry Democratic Party and on January 15th, we spoke.

And I agree with Ann.  If Phil really thinks he is right, and he in't just another shit salesman with a mouth full of samples, we'll see him running for chair.  

[ Parent ]
The Michigan DNC delegation voted to follow those rules a year ago. (4.00 / 4)
The DNC came up with a schedule--and everyone agreed to abide by it, INCLUDING the Michigan DNC representatives.

The DNC came up with the penalties for violating that schedule--and everyone was damned well aware of it, INCLUDING the Michigan DNC representatives, INCLUDING the Clinton campaign, INCLUDING the Governor, Dingell, Levin, Brewer, and the every member of the MDP.

You can argue whether or not the schedule was fair. Perhaps not, but it was agreed to by the Michigan DNC reps (as well as every other state's DNC reps--including, in fact, one of Hillary Clinton's very own high-level advisors, Harold Ickes.).

You can argue whether or not the penalty was too harsh. Perhaps so, but it was known and understood by all of the above, and Clinton's campaign didn't say boo about it--right up until she realized that she might not win the nomination in a cake walk.

Hillary even said, last winter, that Michigan/Florida's votes wouldn't count for anything.

Everyone had 8 FRICKIN' MONTHS to complain. Did the Clinton camp file a grievance then? Did she flaunt the rules by campaigning in Michigan & Florida? Did she publicly protest the "unfairness" of the rules before Iowa and New Hampshire? No. She waited until after she had lost Iowa and S. Carolina and only won by a tiny margin in New Hampshire/Nevada. THEN she started complaining about "disenfranchisement" yadda yadda.

As an Obama supporter, I'd have no problem with a legitimate, no-bullshit do-over; whether it was a caucus or a primary, restricted to Dems or open to Indys/Republicans, the results would almost certainly be, at the very worst, perhaps 55/45 Clinton, and at best he might even win. His worst-case scenario would be that she'd pick up perhaps 10-15 net delegates, still leaving him comfortably in the lead at around 120-140 ahead of her. Doing so would shut everyone up.

So, as an Obama supporter, I agree that he was wrong not to support a do-over--but, as has also been pointed out, there was no way that the do-over primary was gonna make it past the state legislature, since the GOP would've blocked it no matter what. This would have left only some sort of caucus, which would've favored Obama anyway.

So, on that point I agree that he made a mistake, but the larger point is moot--the state party got us into this mess, and has now closed the door on any way out of it, so let's suck it up and move on.

[ Parent ]
Let's not forget also that (0.00 / 0)
the bogus primary has now been ruled unconstitutional and, therefore, is as if it never took place.  No one seems to be addressing that fact anywhere in the media.
[ Parent ]
Primary was not ruled unconstitutional (4.00 / 1)
just the voter list being given to only the Repubs and Dems.

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson
[ Parent ]
PA 52 of 2007 was ruled unconstitutional. (4.00 / 1)
As Judge Edmunds explained, there was no way to get the toothpaste back into the tube, but the statute is void.

The position of the Secretary of State, as they've explained to local election officials in the past few days, is that no election took place, and as a result there are no records from it.

It's hard to think of any practical significance between striking down just the list provision, and or the entire statute.  Well, there is one:  if the Secretary of State is serious, does that mean they are no longer asking for a supplemental appropriation to cover the local governments' bills?  At this moment there's no money available. . .

[ Parent ]
So if no election took place (0.00 / 0)
then that would be true for both Democrats and Republicans. So how then do both parties divvy up their delegates. Can the Republicans or Democrats for that matter still use the "no election" election results to award delegates? There still needs to be some kind of mechanism to officially decide who get what delegates. No?  

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson
[ Parent ]
Selection of delegates is not governed by state law (4.00 / 4)
They don't need a valid election to allocate their delegates, because they aren't creatures of state government.  If the MDP decides to allocated its members based on a reading of goat entrails, that's a matter between them, the DNC and maybe the ASPCA.  But Michigan courts wouldn't have any role in it.

In this situation, even if the statute is held to have violated every provision of the state and federal constitutions, a decision to put it to use is still outside the scope of state courts.  So if the two parties take opposite positions, there's no judicial pressure to bring them into consistency.

[ Parent ]
Sorry (4.00 / 3)
but the selection of the nominee for President is the business of every state in the union. Since the Party is a private organization, it has the legal right to determine said rules.

Not Michigan...not Iowa...but the national party.

Michigan has the right to screw up nomination elections for races in districts completely inside the state of Michigan, but there was a time for deciding on the rules, we had it, we voted to support it, than we broke the rules.

On another point...how many times am I going to have to hear from the "Iowa Sucks" crowd about how this move is the best thing since sliced bread without any acknowledgment on there part that this move will only prevent a successful solution to the primary mess?

Let me spell it out for you:

If Michigan and Florida are allowed to seat their delegates without any punishment for violating the rules, we will have created a precedent that will be used by Iowa and New Hampshire to violate any future deal to solve the problem for selection.

Think more than one-step ahead.

You are also engaging in the very arguments Iowa and New Hampshire folks use to keep their first status...perhaps that would cause you to rethink you position.

[ Parent ]
Some interesting thoughts (4.00 / 9)
It is easy to see there is no shortage of ideas on who's to blame for our current situation.  In truth it took many hands to make the soup we're being served.

So, with that said the one thing that remains to be settled is where to go from here.

If you are discouraged with state level or national level (or both!) politics then take a look around your own back yard.  No doubt there is someone who is running for office who could use your help and is deserving of it.  We could send stronger representation to Lansing and we could certainly do much to change things by winning a lot more of the county offices than we currently hold.  And I dare say there may even be a candidate or two for Congress that show real leadership skills.

While it's fun to play the shit-flinging-monkey on the tubes it accomplishes nothing.  One can even go so far as to show up in person at county party meetings and the like and voice your complaints.  You may feel better after doing so but, in the end, if you show up without any solutions (and some actual ideas on how to achieve them--no points for generalized statements like "so-and-so has to go!") you still achieve nothing.

Phil, I know I put this reply right under your original post but my comment is really directed to all who commented and even those who kept their views to themselves.  As that quote goes "Be the change you want to see." (Hope I got that right)

Julie

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

Agreed, (4.00 / 5)
the local candidates from township, through county to even State Representatives and Senators had little or nothing to do with this and they shouldn't be blamed at all.  And that's what I said last night to an angry group of DFAers -- one shouldn't be angry at everyone, just those who are to blame.

So, I'll move to my work at West Michigan Rising where I hope to play a part in helping local candidates and county parties, will walk with Brandon Dillon, and might just help out another candidate or two, and hope to get on the County ExecCom, and I'm running for Precinct Delegate, etc.  But, in addition to all that, I won't forget that this was a complete fiasco and people ought to be held accountable, so at the County Convention and the State Convention, I'll be voting against the leadership slate.  I simply want the best MDP possible.

In the end I'm pleased with what I did to try to get Democrats in Michigan the right to vote: I blogged hard here, submitted an official MDP Challenge (ignored), wrote LTE to GR Press, got my County Party to pass a resolution in November against the strawpoll, organized calls and emails to the MDP, confronted Granholm and Brewer in person, talked with Representative Sak twice about the issue, etc.

PS: Julie, did I ever take you up on that bet, because if I did (and I meant to but IE crashed I think), you win!

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
Thanks Phil. Your efforts are appreciated! (4.00 / 4)
One of the great things about ML and blogs like yours with a state/local focus is that so many of the participants are involved in the real world efforts and try to combine that with activity on the tubes.  A marriage made in heaven IMO.  :-)  I plan to participate in your efforts at Michigan Rising this season as well.

As to the bet, if you wanted to send $10 to the Grand Traverse Co. Dems (PO Box 1532, Traverse City MI 49685) I wouldn't be offended.  ;-)  

Cheers,
Julie

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

[ Parent ]
Great post (4.00 / 2)
While I have a intrinsic tendency to focus on the national elections, the local one are just as (and sometimes even more) important.

Great post, Julie.



Nothing is easier than solving a problem on the back of the poor. People who don't have lobbyists or clout.

[ Parent ]
Don't hold your breath (4.00 / 4)
on finding sanity at the local level either.

There is a very large amount of fools roaming your local party as well, be prepared to deal with a long list of nonsense for very small amounts of benefits.

If you don't have the heart for it, save everyone the trouble of getting their hopes up and stay at home.

I only want people who are going to stay at the barricades when trouble starts, not run at the first sign of trouble.

[ Parent ]
I have seen more than one group formed (4.00 / 1)
due to local party nonsense.  Much gets done and good things happen.  This is a more common outcome locally than in the big leagues.

Chin up old friend.  Big year ahead.

Julie

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

[ Parent ]
It's time to split the delegates (0.00 / 0)
We all know Brewer screwed up royally. Obviously, if anyone wants to take him out--now is as good a time as any.

Finger pointing won't help in the fall, although, I still find it hard to imagine McCain could carry MI in November.

Hillary needs to agree to a delegate split (the Stupak plan would be fine). She needs to get away from this "credentials fight" idea. (Besides, at this point, it seems highly unlikely that ANY district conventions will be held--before an agreement to split the delegates in place.)

Basically if Hillary, Obama and the DNC don't agree on a delegate split (Stupak plan, etc...) by Apr. 19th, it's almost certain the District conventions will be postponed a second time.

If MI wants to have ANY chance of being seated in Denver, and, the delegates want the certainty of knowing they will be seated upon arrival, the District conventions won't be held unless there is an agreement for a delegate split.


"Those who attempt to censor free speech by filtering the Internet, are... the... TRUE... "tiny cats" of cyberspace."

You mean allocate EARNED delegates (4.00 / 2)
Obama shouldn't be allowed for one second to have ANY unearned delegates. He gets none of Hillary's, he hasn't earned them. Hillary earned her 73 delegates plus any delegates of the 55 Uncommitted that want to and will vote for her. It's months later and hard to believe people are still so desperate to game our state once again for Obama. The first time he did it was bad enough. What it is with trying to pile on wrongs and more wrongs hoping for a right result in your favor? Whew, the karma is building up and it truly is a boomerang. Nobody escapes karma, nobody. I'm glad we're not revoting, but if we would of had to it was brilliant to make the ones who voted crossover Republican to have to stick with that valid vote. Loved that one.

The only thing Obama deserves after he removed his name on purpose in our lawful and valid primary when he caused such a nightmare on top of everything else is: zero delegates. But, for our state constituents, who are not to blame, that do support him it's only fair to let him try to get some of the votes of the 55 Uncommitted delegates since some of you did vote for him. All of YOU do deserve that. I wouldn't dream of disenfranchising your vote nor the delegates that wanted Edwards and now deserve their own choice, unlike Donna Brazile and Howard Dean.

That's it though, he gets part of the Uncommitted that he still has to earn, (for once, at last!) and ONLY the ones that end up voting for him later this month, besides any of the 28 superdelegates also up for grabs when their turn comes and not forced to prematurely. If the situation were reversed I would be saying the exact same thing about Hillary, but of course she isn't and wasn't stupid like Obama, and, she isn't to blame. We have to do what is right, what is honest and above board, not what you "wish" for or dishonestly connive for just to help him. He owns his Pandora's Box all by his lonesome.

This talk of unfairly "splitting" the delegates down the middle giving him part of hers is past ridiculous and does nothing but make Obama totally unlegitimate in Michigan if anyone attempts to do this, much less the national nomination. Why would anyone want to render that invalid for the GE? Which is exactly what it would be if you blatantly steal delegates. Why does everyone else in the world get this except for Obama supporters?

For now I can see giving her half of her 73, him half of the 55, and then let the 55 actual totals get adjusted after the congressional district convention once the Uncommitted are officially voted on. Nothing else is considered "legitimate", and no excuses or shenanigans will make it legitimate done any other way. The world is watching and we all know what's on the up and up. A majority of the world feels as I do though, this crap needs to stop and our full delegates okay'd to be seated right now. As is.

Same with the voter totals themselves, I busted out laughing when I saw they wanted to halve them also. So tell us, when the Republicans stripped only half of their delegates, how did they count in the voter totals on the board?
1.) Did they tally voter totals 100%, with 50% delegates added up?
2.) Or only 50% voter totals, with 50% delegates added up?

What is the answer, #1 or #2?  We're also reading the Republicans punished all 5 states that moved up, but yet there's all kinds of C-Span videos and links galore showing Donna Brazile fought only to punish MI & FL, and 100% at that. People need the truth. Nothing but the truth.

Too much has come out on what Donna Brazile did to go nuclear on MI & FL when she shouldn't have, how she misapplied and virtually overruled some people on the 'rulez' and is now trying to rewrite some, and Dean let her. They both need to be fired and replaced. It's being discussed all over the blogosphere but I'm not seeing it brought up here today as the biggest part of the story?

And even though I rarely bother to give HuffPo any hits these days even they had a post the other day brought to our attention called 'Could the Republicans Pick the Democratic Nominee?-The Untold Story of How the GOP Rigged Florida and Michigan' by Wayne Barret that laid it all out pretty darn well who is also mainly at fault for screwing us over: the Republicans.

Besides Donna Brazile that is. I'm looking squarely at her, not Mark Brewer or any of our state Dem leaders. Hillary doesn't need to get away from anything, she didn't start this or cause this mess. She certainly does NOT have to agree to anything illegal, unfair, trumped up, or be railroaded. Our system needs overhauling alright, but the Credentials Committee is there for good reason and any candidate (or our party) that doesn't fully use it when necessary, and correctly, has no business trying to be President. It's amazing how things get twisted and conflated that have been in place as safety nets for years. Odd, it's not OK for Howard to suddenly stack the committee though I'll tell you that. Obama on the other hand is a piece of work and is blocking YOUR vote, as he has from day one. Nothing will change these truths.

[ Parent ]
This is all a fight over nothing (4.00 / 2)
Obama has this thing wrapped up.  It has nothing to do with Michigan and Florida.  The fact is that Hillary failed to have a plan for competing for the nomination.  I honestly think she thought she would win Iowa and New Hampshire and roll to the nomination.  She never had a plan and now says she is the best candidate.  It's time to get on the bus.
[ Parent ]
Gimme a call (1.33 / 3)
Gimme a call when Obama gets enough delegates to clinch. Until then it ain't over.

Obama cannot win a general election. I am convinced of that now. He is a modern day Adlai Stevenson combined with the political sense of Jimmy Carter.

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

[ Parent ]
Should I hit you up on MySpace? (4.00 / 2)
Remember this is not a math quiz it's politics.  Obama will be the nominee and probably President.  But if you think he can't win and the Supers should not give it to him then who should the nominee be? Clinton can't win with the media "sniping" at her.
[ Parent ]
You don't undertsand (4.00 / 1)
primary fever swamp logic...

Give the nomination to the person who fails to beat the person who can't win in the general election.

It all makes sense, but you have to lose your mind first.

Don't worry, most get it back after the frontal lobes are allowed to cool for about six months.

[ Parent ]
nah, HRC still had a chance to win a few days ago (0.00 / 0)
I think what happened is that Granholm decided not to expend capital to push a mulligan caucus because she realizes that even with Michigan voting, HRC's chances of winning the nomination were about 5% (if she could end on a roll and end up with more popular votes than Obama she could have swayed enough supers).

Jen just walked away from Hill and this thing is probably 99% over.  Now HRC had no chance of leading in delegates or popular votes when we're all done.  I think HRC received a mortal blow yesterday and now her only chance is a big win in PA (10 points or more), another in Indiana, and a win of some sort in NC.  A loss of any kind and HRC may drop out.

PS: From what I hear HRC never thought she'd win Iowa.  She expected to do very well on Super Tuesday, and she did, but not as well as she needed to and the media spin didn't help her.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
Iowa (4.00 / 1)
The best thing that happened for Obama was Edwards beating Clinton in Iowa.  That is where the story of Clinton as flawed candidate began.  The original plan was that she would win Iowa. She knew that Edwards might beat her but never expected Obama to win and for her to finish third.  Speaking of Democracy, there is no way for her to get the nomination and have Obama backers think democracy had anything to do with selecting our nominee.
[ Parent ]
Had the media not spent the time (4.00 / 1)
between Iowa and New Hampshire being triumphant over Clinton's loss in Iowa, I think her candidacy would have been over on Super Tuesday...

There are a large number of people in the Party who feel loyalty towards the Clintons because of the 1990s. It is the one thing that has hampered anyone from attacking her credibility during the primary...

Lucky for Obama, she has decided to do it for him.

[ Parent ]
It's Official (0.00 / 0)
A few quick comments. (4.00 / 5)
I both strongly agree with something Phil said and at the same time strongly disagree.

1.

The leadership of the MDP has proven itself completely incompetent -- no election, no campaigns, no discussion of Michigan issues, no movement to change the primary calendar.  With or without delegates, this is a complete and total failure.

Amen!

2. But to blame Obama is questionable at best. He wanted to make sure the process was fair and that everybody had a chance to vote. If you believe that this was the determining factor in this primary not happening, then tell us why you think that.

3. Does anyone still care to defend the decision to hold the primary on January 15?

4. I know I'm thinking of ways to get more involved. I'm a precinct delegate and will soon file for a second term. I may run for a spot on the Kent County Executive Committee and maybe even State Central. Everyone who opposed the primary also needs to as well.

5. I am in complete agreement with what Julie said.

Great Lakes, Great Times, Great Scott

Comment on 4. (4.00 / 3)
Great! We need everyone to be as involved as possible. I don't know how competitive membership on the Kent County Exec is. In Kalamazoo, it is a large committee (over 100) and pretty much anyone who wants to be on it can be.

For State Central, elections are at the Spring odd-year District conventions, usually held at the state convention in Detroit. These spots are usually more competitive, so you may need to line up support in advance.

[ Parent ]
Amen! (4.00 / 3)
Very important to get busy NOW if you want to run for state central (or any other position others will want).

And if you are looking to get elected to such a spot it is fortunate that the election cycle still lay ahead.  It affords many oppourtunities to demonstrate leadership, an ability to get things done, to work well with others and all the other qualities that make one a valuable member of any of the committees one might be considering running for.

Excellent point memiller.  :-)

Julie  

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

[ Parent ]
Team Obama Michigan (4.00 / 3)
Hunter and Thompson fought tooth and nail in Lansing to put the kabash on any kind of revote, the details didn't matter to them.  Note, they never once put forward a plan to hold an election -- they stuck with "split it 50-50."

Look, Obama is still a strong candidate and I'll still go door to door for him as a Precinct Captain, but this was a powerplay in Michigan do insure him the nomination and he took it rather than take a very small risk, but one that would improve his chances of winning in November and would have been better for the MDP.  My hope now is that HRC and JRE delegates in Denver will find a way to make the platform and Obama himself better on healthcare and trade.  If that is accomplished and we get unity and a good VP, we can recover from this.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
I think you mean Thomas... (4.00 / 1)
...as in Sen. Buzz Thomas...not Thompson.


"HAZEN S. PINGREE...He was the first to warn the people of the great danger threatened by powerful private corporations, and the first to awake to the great inequalities in taxation and to initiate steps for reforms. THE IDOL OF THE PEOPLE"
[ Parent ]
Another Dead Person (4.00 / 2)
He meant Hunter S. Thompson fought tooth and nail against the redo. "Fear and Loathing in Lansing" indeed.
[ Parent ]
Off base (4.00 / 4)
It's nice that so many of you fancy yourselves Internet pundits, but let me give you the facts:

Granholm and Dingell wanted an early primary to help their candidate of choice.

Brewer didn't, but had to play along because it's not good for unity for the Democratic Chair to go head-to-head with the Democratic governor.

Remember, folks, as unpopular as she may be -- even with many Dems -- Granholm is still the governor, and ultimately the governor rules in party matters.

The end. Now let's move on.

An article in the Detroit News today (4.00 / 3)
here

is mostly old news to those who have followed the story, except for the final paragraph:

[Brewer] suggested one possible solution is to allocate some delegates based on Jan. 15, and some from results of a party convention this spring. Such a convention, he said, could be open to the state's 20,000 or so formal party members, though an enrollment period prior to the convention could swell that substantially.

Have we heard this idea of an extra convention being put forward before? What do we all think?

not a bad idea (4.00 / 2)
better than the undemocratic split (either the Obama 50-50 plan or the Stupak mix).

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
[ Parent ]
No candidate should benefit (0.00 / 0)
in any substantial way from the Potemkin primary we held in January.

Here's my solution, let us send all our delegates but they can't cast a vote on the nominee for president.

It won't matter because the Supers will have decided this thing by the end of June at the latest.

[ Parent ]
I did exactly 1 month ago. (0.00 / 0)
  An MDP State Convention is an option. posted by: Cole6015 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 09:11:01 AM EST
attached to: Carville offers $15M for MI/FL contests, etc.  
[ Parent ]
www.lansingafterdark.com (4.00 / 1)
You can see the letter that AFL-CIO president Mark Gaffney sent to Mark Grebner regarding StupidGate.

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
I can't wait to read Gaffney's letter addressing Grebner's outsourcing of jobs. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
well i can help (0.00 / 0)
check out www.lansingafterdark.com

Proud member of the Whatley Posse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
[ Parent ]
I read the response to "stupid", but that is all I am seeing. :( (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
AP: No Democracy for Democrats in Michigan | 126 comments

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- Windmillin'

Mid-Michigan:
- Among the Trees
- Blue Chips (CMU College Democrats Blog)
- Christine Barry
- Conservative Media
- Far Left Field
- Graham Davis
- Honest Errors
- ICDP:Dispatch (Isabella County Democratic Party Blog)
- Liberal, Loud and Proud
- Livingston County Democratic Party Blog
- MI Blog
- Mid-Michigan DFA
- Pohlitics
- Random Ramblings of a Somewhat Common Man
- Waffles of Compromise
- YAF Watch

Flint/Bay Area/Thumb:
- Bay County Democratic Party
- Blue November
- East Michigan Blue
- Genesee County Young Democrats
- Greed, Eggs, and Ham
- Jim Stamas Watch
- Meddling Outsider
- Saginaw County Democratic Party Blog
- Stone Soup Musings
- Voice of Mordor

Southeast Michigan:
 - A2Politico
- arblogger
- Arbor Update
- Congressman John Conyers (CD14)
- Mayor Craig Covey
- Councilman Ron Suarez
- Democracy for Metro Detroit
- Detroit Skeptic
- Detroit Uncovered (formerly "Fire Jerry Oliver")
- Grosse Pointe Democrats
- I Wish This Blog Was Louder
- Kicking Ass Ann Arbor (UM College Democrats Blog)
- LJ's Blogorific
- Mark Maynard
- Michigan Progress
- Motor City Liberal
- North Oakland Dems
- Oakland Democratic Politics
- Our Michigan
- Peters for Congress (CD09)
- PhiKapBlog
- Polygon, the Dancing Bear
- Rust Belt Blues
- Third City
- Thunder Down Country
- Trusty Getto
- Unhinged

MI Congressional
District Watch Blogs:
 - Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood (CD08)
MI Campaigns:
- ActBlue (MI Congressional Candidates)
- Michigan Round Table for Diversity and Inclusion
- MichUHCAN (Affordable Health Care)
- Politics1 (MI Candidate Listings)
- Senator Carl Levin

MI Democratic Orgs:
- Michigan Democratic Party
- Michigan House Democratic Caucus
- Michigan Senate Democratic Caucus
- MDP Youth Caucus
- Michigan Young Democrats
- Ingham County Democratic Party
- Genesee County Dems Progressive Caucus
- Saginaw Area Democratic Club
- Justice Caucus
- South County Dems (Berrien Co.)
- Western Washtenaw Democrats

MI Progressive Orgs:
- America Votes Michigan coalition
- Michigan Labor organizations
- Michigan Voice coalition

MI Misc.:
- Absolute Michigan
- Center for Michigan
- Citizens Research Council
- Detroit News Politics Blog
- Freep Opinion
- Media Mouse (Grand Rapids Indy Media) Blog
- Michigan Campaign Finance Network
- The Michigan Citizen Blog
- Michigan Interfaith Trust Fund
- Michigan Future (WWJ)
- Michigan Nonprofit Association's blog
- Michigan Prospect
- Michigan Public News Service
- Michigan Radio
- Michigan Secret Court
- MLive.com Blogs
- Political Graveyard
- Red Tape Blog (Government Documents Librarians of Michigan)

National Alternative Media:
- Air America Radio
- BlogTalkRadio
- BuzzFlash
- ePluribus Media
- Indymedia
- New Journalist Program (Center for Independent Media)
- PoliticsTV

National Blogs:
- AFL-CIO Weblog
- BlogPAC
- Daily Kos
- Firedoglake
- From The Roots (DSCC)
- The Gavel (Speaker's Office)
- Huffington Post
- HuffPo: Rich Robinson
- Kicking Ass (DNC)
- MyDD
- My Left Wing
- The Next Hurrah
- Open Left
- The Thicket (NCSL)
- Senate Guru
- Smart Ass (CDA)
- The Stakeholder (DCCC)
- YDA



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