If you haven't already read it...

Ahhh Muskegon Critic... (4.00 / 3)

The best thing to come out of Muskegon since Cole's garlic bread. I was feeling very down and discouraged last night after the beating we took in the blogosphere, and MC stepped up to tell it like it is.

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by: PerfectStormer @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 16:49:03 PM UTC

Also Lovin' Muskegon Critic (4.00 / 3)

Saw this on the rec list this morning - it's not the first time he's been there - and had to swell with Muskegon pride.  Good on ya, MC.

Walk a mile in the other guy's shoes. That way, you're a mile away from him; plus, you have his shoes.

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by: lakeshoremmm @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 17:00:26 PM UTC

MC is great (4.00 / 2)

he's a great blogger and we're fortunate for him to post occasionally on WMR.

"Kill the headlights and put it in neutral..."

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by: AikoAdam @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 17:08:31 PM UTC

Kos is full of nonsensical ravings? (0.00 / 0)

I take exception to that. You sound like Flush Limbo. I read both Kos and MichLib regularly and, all in all, Kos is by far the more impressive.

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by: gregsullmich @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 22:01:25 PM UTC

Hmmmm.... (4.00 / 1)

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion and your participation here is certainly appreciated, but from what I saw yesterday and have seen over recent months, it appears that a majority -- perhaps a substantial majority -- of Kos' participants really don't think that manufacturing is really an important component of the nation's overall economy.  This is beyond the point that they don't appear to care that it's critical to the economic well being of this part of the country.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Tue Mar 31, 2009 at 23:40:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It has also been observed (0.00 / 0)

that a very large contingent of poster at MichLib are Michigan centric...often more concerned with Michigan's interests at the expense of the country/world...

As would be expected of a national/world blog and a state blog.

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:47:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Manufacturing matters (0.00 / 0)

The percentage of people who regularly contribute here who don't think that manufacturers ought to act like they exist as part of a larger planet (i.e. engage global issues like trade and climate change) is much smaller than the observable percentage of Kos contributors who think that Detroit ought to fail because over the years they haven't.  Anyway, luckily for us, the best economic minds (progressive and conservative) agree on the need for a strong manufacturing sector and that currently making automobiles is the centerpiece of American manufacturing.  So, we might be a bunch of parochial bumpkins on the topic of the Detroit 2.5, but we at least have the experts on our side on whether it's a smart idea to simply let Detroit fail.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:32:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Unfortunately, the rest of America sees it that way, too... (4.00 / 1)

dKos members are mostly people living on the coasts... they have no clue about our way of life and how it impacts them directly and indirectly....  neither do most Americans, I'm afraid.  That's why they've been rooting for GM (and with it, us) to fail...

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by: lord_mike @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 07:33:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

And where does the fault lie (4.00 / 1)

for that...

I seem to remember warning everyone at this site exactly that, and was basically told the equivalent of "Michigan has God on its side..."

Experts...God...the Flying Spaghetti Monster...whatever.

Until Michigan and the auto industry figures out how to engage in a PR campaign that shows why the people of America should care...

Start Googling Bethlehem Steel...

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 13:22:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

We do have "God" on our side... (0.00 / 0)

If you don't think manufacturing is important or that the auto industry forms a critical component of the nation's overall economy, you need something more comprehensive than a "PR" campaign to convince you of the errors of your ways.

Fortunately for us, the people who make decisions understand this.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 15:24:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Being right (0.00 / 0)

doesn't ensure you actually get your way...

Sending the CEOs to meet with Congress on private jets was a boneheaded move, and could have been prevented...

But it wasn't.

Continue to cry foul and jump up and down, but until you unwind decades of bad PR re: Detroit, you aren't going to get anywhere...

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 15:48:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

... (4.00 / 1)

"The idea of wilderness needs no defense. It only needs more defenders."
--Ed Abbey

I'm with you, actually, about 60 percent.  It was incredibly stupid for the Big Three CEOs to fly to Washington in private jets.

It was even stupider, however, for lawmakers from both parties and from outside the region to pretend that it was an actual issue.  It was evidence of just how juvenile our approach to important issues often is.

You either accept the proposition that healthy manufacturing is critical to a nationwide economic recovery or you don't.  If you do, you also have to accept that the auto industry in general and Detroit specifically are a critical component to American manufacturing.  If you accept both of those, you don't write on the Internet that Detroit and GM can go to Hell.

There are a lot of things that need fixing in the auto industry.  Doing that rests on an honest assessment of what needs to be done, not in convincing people who are negatively predisposed to the auto makers that they need to support American industry.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 16:16:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If God was on our side... (0.00 / 0)

Obama wouldn't be forcing bankruptcy upon us...  I mean, this guy, of all guys, was supposed to be on our side!*

But, the rest of the country doesn't get it, and the political pressure to, "let them fail" instead of meaningful continued aid, was going to be simply too much... so, now we are in plan B... one that is a lot scarier than plan A.

They call it arrogance on our part... We think the rest of the country is being arrogant...  It's certainly a big misunderstanding that might totally sink us...

*Now, I do want to qualify that I believe that Obama is still on our side.  After I cooled down from my initial seething anger and read the WSJ article on the plan in toto, I think Obama is following his MO, which is doing what's right in the long term, even if it hurts more in the short term.  And it also seems from what I'm reading that the UAW won't be busted too bad in the process, too, even if it goes to court.  This is all very reassuring news....  If he stays true to his commitment to keep GM running and Chrysler operational (even under Fiat) for now, then there is a very strong chance that the "beaten down" GM could regrow very quickly... They will actually be at a competitive advantage with most other car manufacturers if the plan is accomplished.  The hope is, that they will reopen plants at home as they regrow over the years...  If the UAW gets a board seat or two, that makes it more likely...  And if they follow Granholm's lead and make the push for volt-type powertrains in all cars... well, who knows what could happen.

Of course, all that is contingent on the various plans working, and, unfortunately, there is no room for error... GM is life... and life as we know it here is on thin ice... even if my rosy scenario comes to pass (and everything has to work right for that to happen), life will still never be the same here... It's all very scary... It would have been nice if Obama spoke more to us instead of the rest of the country that hates us.... Maybe he still will...

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by: lord_mike @ Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 04:03:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Indifference and Annoyance (4.00 / 2)

It has more to do with indifference and annoyance. Sure there are plenty of idiots on the coasts who refer to everything in-between as Flyover Country, but they are in the minority. Most people are not rooting for GM's failure. The vast majority simply don't care if GM or Chrysler disappear. To them it's just another brand that's declining or disappearing (like Atari, International Harvester, or Zenith). Not a way of life.

The people on the coasts are also annoyed that Levin and Dingell have done everything possible (with the help of GM, Chrysler, and Ford) to obstruct improved fuel economy and emissions standards year-after-year. And they look at the state that is the home of those three companies and that sends these two politicians to DC and think, "hey, Michigan doesn't get it. Let'em rot." And so they continue to buy Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Hyundai. Not that there aren't plenty of SUV drivers on the coasts. I saw more Hummers on the roads in LA than I've seen anywhere else in the country. But people who live in places like Beverly Hills and Malibu can afford big cars regardless of the price of gas.

There have been warnings for 50 years about the need to diversify the state's economy, always ignored (see Jack Lessenberry from yesterday). Between the mismanagement at the top of the Detroit Three, and the mentality that just because your grandfather, father, and other family members worked at the plant meant you were going to work at and retire from the plant, you have a recipe for disaster at this moment in time. Why now? The credit market coming to a halt, people's buying habits largely shifting to more fuel-efficient vehicles, and the poor PR work of the Big Three, have all combined to push GM and Chrysler to the edge of death.

Based on what I've read on the web, in print, and have experienced personally, I agree that there is a lot of ignorance on the coasts about Michigan. But the ignorance goes the other way, too. If you don't understand people outside of Michigan, how are you going to sell them a product, let alone explain your plight?

P.S. If it were up to me, there would have been no government bailout of the financial industry or the auto industry. The money would be better spent on unemployment benefits for laid-off workers, tuition grants, and direct mortgage assistance for people facing foreclosure.

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by: rich @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 14:10:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think that was Lessenberry's point this morning as well (4.00 / 1)

The leadership of the Big Three are an insular clique of good old boys.  Just the other day, Wagoner's comment about his mistake in spiking the electric car as a failure of marketing rather than a lack of vision was brought back up.

That's not a failure of the American assembly line worker any more than the pre-surge Iraq War represented a failure of the American serviceman.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 15:28:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Most of them do. (0.00 / 0)

The majority of people there are supportive of the manufacturing sector.  But if you're looking for everyone to be in agreement with you on 100% of the issues, you're not going to find that anywhere.

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by: djtyg @ Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 20:32:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It was an exceptional rant (4.00 / 1)

I asked him to cross post it here. I'm glad to linked over to it.  

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by: Gaspare @ Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 13:27:33 PM UTC