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Johnson picks up the endorsements of 50 OFA organizers

by: Eric B.

Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 14:05:49 PM EST


The headline pretty much speaks for itself. Here's the list.

For the record, Johnson apparently answered questions about not voting in 2010 while speaking in Oakland County last night. I could sum it up for you, or I could encourage someone who was present to quickly flesh out what he said.

Eric B. :: Johnson picks up the endorsements of 50 OFA organizers
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Johnson picks up the endorsements of 50 OFA organizers | 89 comments
If I heard him correctly, his basic response was...
...that he was living in D.C. at the time and wasn't 100% sure of his voting residency status, so took a pass rather than risk voting at the wrong location.

Not saying whether the answer is satisfactory or not, but it's an answer, and he at least didn't sound like he was trying to weasel out of responses; it was more an attitude of, "you asked, I answered, if you don't like the answer so be it, but there you have it."

That's exactly what I heard and how I read it
Take that as confirmation.

That was one of two questions inspired by things people read here at Michigan Liberal.  The other was asked of Dave Woodward, who was acting as Mark Brewer's surrogate.  It was about Mike McGuiness's assertion that Brewer was involved in the fake Tea Party.  Out of Woodward's answer, the only thing I took away was "consider the source."  The rest just didn't make a coherent impression on me.

Greetings from Detroit, Ground Zero of the post-industrial future!

[ Parent ]
Consider the source? Wow.
This comment is very ironic to me, although that was likely not the author's intent.

Mr. Woodward has difficulty with coherence when he is in a position that is hard to defend. Many observers of his speaking will likely concur.

Yet again, he is acting as Mr. Brewer's surrogate. He is often called upon for that role over the years.

It was Mr. Woodward who called me seeking Tea Party candidate recruitment assistance on Mr. Brewer's behalf.

It was Mr. Woodward who collected the candidate paperwork and delivered it to Mr. Brewer.  

It was Mr. Woodward who contacted me on multiple occasions about the fallout prior to my stepping down as chair.

I had chosen to omit his name from the issue at hand in previous comments, as he is not the one that was seeking to lead the state party. And he had already endured his share of stress throughout the ordeal, in my opinion.

However, if he wants to publicly join in on the Bash-McGuinness-Bandwagon to protect Mr. Brewer's re-election bid, so be it.

And for the record, no, I know of no illegal activity on Mr. Woodward's part. And he already testified to the Grand Jury, so no need for anyone to make hollow calls for it to be re-examined.

Footnote: I post this comment not to try and further dissuade someone from voting for a candidate for chair; obviously some feel as though this is not a factor and that is their right. I post this comment to push back on the discrediting aimed at me from, in this circumstance, a most outrageous source.

Great Lakes, Great Times.

[ Parent ]
Consider the source has been their answer all along
It was how Brewer answered questions about it when it first arose.

Among the Trees
[ Parent ]
Certainly.
I expected it from Mr. Brewer.

It is bold to see Mr. Woodward (1) put himself up for the surrogate role and (2) employ it to defuse the question considering his awareness and involvement.  

Great Lakes, Great Times.

[ Parent ]
I thought about asking the question...
...but considering just about everyone in the room there in Novi knew Mike and was aware of the fallout from what had happened (if not the full details) in 2010, I figured it wasn't my place.

So instead I explored what I think is a real difference between Brewer and Johnson: Their approach to money and fundraising.

Mark Brewer is proud to have eliminated a deficit when he came on as Chairman, and even more proud that the MDP has operated in the black ever since.

He also argues that he's saved so much money over the years by serving as Chairman, Executive Director and unofficial in-house legal counsel on election law -- because it's cheaper than hiring an ED and retaining an elections law attorney.

Those are positive things, and fine accomplishments. As I've said before, compared to his predecessors Brewer has been brilliant. Also, never accepting a raise (another thing he boasts about) is...noble? Self-effacing?

But the MDP's job isn't to break even year after year -- it's winning elections. And in this post Citizens United world, you win elections with more money, not carefully shepherding your existing money.

Mark Brewer sells himself as a bargain. But I don't want a bargain -- I want Democrats in higher office looking out for my wife and stepsons.

For his part, Lon Johnson talked about increasing the MDP's fundraising and donor base -- just like OFA managed to do in 2008 and again last year, with technology and outreach. Johnson's connections and track record -- including raising $300,000 to contest a House race in Kalkaska -- suggests he can do it.

By declaring he won't try to wear Brewer's three hats, but concentrate on messaging, fundraising and setting the MDP's direction, I think it's possible for the MDP's operating budget to double by the end of 2014...even with reduced funding from our union partners forced by RTW.

Can Johnson do it? I don't know, but I'm willing to give him my vote so he can try. I mean, what's the worst that could happen: A repeat of 2010? I'm afraid the Brewer-built MDP is already heading down that road, laying the foundation for our December 2014 excuses (it was RTW! It's HARD to beat an incumbent! Anti-Obama backlash! Michigan's economy got a little better!) even as we make brave statements and talk up our chances.

"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." ~ Harlan Ellison

[ Parent ]
Saving money
I no longer live in Michigan and I really don't have a dog in this fight, but I wanted to comment on Mark Brewer's assertation that he saves money since he is wearing 3 hats at the Party. In Iowa, where I live now, the IDP has a chair, an executive director, and a legal counsel, but having all 3 of those actually saves money for the Party. The chair is an entirely volunteer position which has often been filled by an attorney and the chair actually makes money for the Party by soliciting donations. The legal counsel is not an employee but is an outside counsel that only charges the IDP when he needs to and there are plenty of attorneys willing to donate time. The MDP should adopt the volunteer chair system and have a political professional be executive director.  
[ Parent ]
Lon..
has asked asked for a raise form 80k over what mark is currently making, 80k, for a salary of 160k. He also wants to hire a ED for what would probably be a salary of another 80k.

So if he gets elected chair he will be costing the party 240k a year.

[ Parent ]
I don't find this argument terribly convincing
He also wants to ramp up fund raising, which means that if he brings in an additional $100,000 annually, he'll pay for his own pay raise. There are places you can go with that, like whether he's worth pulling that money away from something else -- he wants to tap in the tens of millions spent on Democratic and progressive causes in the state every election cycle, after all -- but a simple pay raise isn't much of a strike against him if he earns it.

Among the Trees
[ Parent ]
well i thought
I had made a few argues against the pay raise on this site, but to reiterate. He has said he want to hire a ed to actually run the party, so he not going to be actually doing the job. We could use the money he wants to be pay along with the money for the ed to hire organizers, something the party needs on the ground to help rebuild the local parties. He by his own omission that he is thinking of running for office in a few years. So why is a person that already is planning empty suit, especially given his primary backer, worthy of a pay raise?
[ Parent ]
Again, this isn't a terribly convincing argument
Based on what you've written here, the military could get rid of all its executive officers and increase a tour of duty for a commanding officer to 18 years.

He's not proposing making the party chairman an empty suit. He's saying that the job of running the party needs to be split between someone who raises money and is the visual face of the party, and someone who runs the day-to-day operations. That's how most successful organizations operate these days. And, if he can raise a bunch of extra money to pay for it, what difference does it really make how much of a pay raise he gets?

As for leaving for another job, it reminds me of when CMU hired Brian Kelly as its head football coach. Everyone knew, when he came to Mt. Pleasant, that he was going to use the job of head coach as a springboard to coaching elsewhere. They hired him anyway, because they knew he was going to build a quality football program in order to have the success that would make him attractive elsewhere. And, he did it, and as a result of what he built and then turned over to someone else, CMU's football team was briefly ranked in the top 25 nationwide.

The question is whether the changes he'd be able to make within the party are worth the investment of money and knowing that he's not going to stay in the job for a billion years.

Among the Trees

[ Parent ]
sigh
And his biggest backer is the uaw the biggest agent of not changing within the party. Furthermore the rebuilding if the party is going to take a whole lot longer then a couple years. So no his not worth the money cause he won't get anything done in the time his there
[ Parent ]
At least that's an argument
[ Parent ]
It's what Bobby Schostak does...
Think ol' Bobby is the kind of hands-on, three-hat-wearing micro-manager for MIGOP that Mark is for the MDP?

Hell no. Schostak was not selected for his frugality or his expertise in elections law. He was a multimillionaire donor with nothing more to offer than good speaking skills, close ties to Rick Snyder, and a proven ability to raise scads of money from OTHER wealthy donors.

End of story.

And if the Tea Party thinks they're going to replace him with some activist who can't reach into the pockets of the Morouns, Nicholsons and DeVoses on a regular basis...they're in for yet another disappointment.

"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." ~ Harlan Ellison

[ Parent ]
Questions Questions Questions
Would have liked to have asked if Woodward was involved in the Decaffeinated Tea Party...
[ Parent ]
Nevermind...
NT
[ Parent ]
The MDP Record during the last 16 years
We desperately need a Change

Michigan has now gone "blue" in 6 straight presidential cycles and in 6 straight U.S Senate races with victory margins as high a 60%.  

Down ticket, however, the picture is not rosy.  It is a deep red.

At onset of 2014, a review of the previous 16 years will confirm that the Michigan Democratic Party has:
• Lost 4 straight Secretary of State Races,
• Lost 3 straight Attorney's General races,
• Held a majority in the State House for only 4 of the previous 16 years, and
• Held a majority on the Michigan Supreme Court for only 4 months of the previous 16 years.

We must change or perish as a viable political party.  

Here is my problem's with this things
For the list I have one point

1. Most of these people on this list are on his payroll, not really grassroot support from local activists, seem more like astroturfing the with paychecks.

For his answer to the question

If I heard him correctly, his basic response was that he was living in D.C. at the time and wasn't 100% sure of his voting residency status, so took a pass rather than risk voting at the wrong location. Not saying whether the answer is satisfactory or not, but it's an answer, and he at least didn't sound like he was trying to weasel out of responses; it was more an attitude of, "you asked, I answered, if you don't like the answer so be it, but there you have it."

1. If his suppose to be the head of the party, shouldn't he have some clue of what his voting status is? seriously this is like a doctor wanting to practice medical without having gone to medical school.

2. If he suppose to energize the party as chair, how can he do that when he can't even get himself fired up? his answer just betrays him as lazy, do we really want a lazy chair?

We had a serious drought in 2010 of people voting, how can we take serious someone who, not only was part of the problem that year, but then blows of the question like it doesn't matter?

2010 again
Lon did not blow off the question, he answered it, and then answered a bunch more.

Lon Johnson is not lazy.

The blame for the crappy dem turnout in 2010 does not lie with Lon Johnson.

But I am optimistic that he is ready to lead the party and stop a 2010 from happening again.  He can raise money and he knows how to run campaigns.  And he likes to win.  And we need wins.

[ Parent ]
Not Saying it is his fault
He was in D.C. at the time, but him not voting in 2010 means he was part of the problem, and instead of being in D.C., why wasn't he here in the state trying to help in 2010, instead of sitting on the sidelines?
[ Parent ]
DC
I think he was in DC at the time because he and his wife both had jobs in DC.
[ Parent ]
.
According to his pr and interviews he was working for a private equity investment company that was located down south from around 07 tell when he ran for office.
[ Parent ]
Really?
The blame of crappy dem 2010 turnout certainly lies with people like Lon.

1) Democrats who did not vote for very bad reasons like not being registered or not knowing where to vote on election day.

2) Democrats who were not involved and did not help because they were "taking this year off" or "were too busy now to volunteer because of my new job".

You don't have to agree with me that he isn't the right candidate for the job but it is hard to try and claim that Lon was not part of the problem for Dems in 2010.

[ Parent ]
i thought i give a second go
He didn't blow it off, so much as shrug it, a tactics of someone trying to avoid more questions on the subject.

He said he took a pass rather then do something college students do every year, or military, or snowbirds, he was lazy.

The blame doesn't lie with him, but he was part of the problem, furthermore if he wants to lead this party why was in dc and not in Michigan, helping the dems try and turn out more voters.

On the subject of leading he has already said he wants to hire a ed to do the jobs, does sound like much leading to me, sounds like sitting on his butt, collecting a pay check, and getting a nice title on his resume for when he runs for office in a few years.

[ Parent ]
The blame for the crappy turnout
Is the lack of good GOTV.
[ Parent ]
History..
..Disagrees with you
[ Parent ]
and
Not to mention every other state that when red that year.
[ Parent ]
Michigan.gov/vote
Not being sure where you are registered to vote is about the worst answer anyone could give to that question. Is is a problem he and many others create out of laziness and if he couldn't determine where he was registered to vote on election day and opted to not risk it is perplexing.

Anyone volunteering on a campaign should be able to answer that question and anyone with a internet connection should be to Google it.

[ Parent ]
The issue he was concerned about was not where he was
registered, but what his residency status was. IOW, whether he had lived away too long to vote in MI. That can be trickier. If he did not actually have a household in Michigan while he was in DC, then he was not a resident, and was correct not to vote.
[ Parent ]
.
I am sorry that just sounds like an excuse. If he had lived away from Michigan to long or did not have a residency he had no business voting here and should have re-register in DC.
[ Parent ]
I won't try to explain voter registration law
... but here's an introduction.  A person often has a CHOICE of where to register, and the law won't quibble with the choice they make.

The choice isn't completely unconstrained; you have to have established "a domicile" in order to register, but if you have some sort of physical location where you presently have (or used to have and expect to have again) the right to reside, you're pretty much covered, even if you don't presently live there in the everyday sense.

All of this means that there isn't a single correct choice for many people.  It is not their duty to select the single place which best fits the legal definition.  All they have to do is choose a place which adequately meets it.

At the same time, the elections authorities have various rights and duties involving updating the voter rolls.  It's perfectly possible for a voter to be legally registered at a given address, and for the local Clerk to have the right to remove their registration.  This right to invalidate a registration doesn't generally apply to a solid address, but often comes into play where the voter is gaming the system.  And by "gaming the system", I don't mean anything that is necessarily illegal.

In the simplest cases, where somebody simply lives at an ordinary address and registers there, everything is very simple.  The voter has only one choice, and the local Clerk has no reason to invalidate it.  The complexities arise when a person is registered someplace they aren't actually living, either because they've moved away, or because they're claiming residency for a new registration at an address where their residency claim is based on a right to reside, rather than actual presence.

It probably sounds as if I'm talking about voter fraud here, but I'm really trying to talk about the realities of real-life situations like military service, homelessness, divorce, college attendance, jobs that involve life on the road, hospice, ambiguous romantic living arrangements....

If I ever teach a class in election law, I'd have to flesh out this introduction with citations to cases and election procedure manuals.  But right now, my brain is overheating, and I better stop.

[ Parent ]
Small ball
These are the tactics of candidates when they run for partisan office.  They try to turn minor mistakes into federal cases or hanging offenses.  They try to create the impression that things that don't matter much are disqualifying.  So let's get real.  Missing an election ain't perjury. If you think it was just fine for Bill Clinton to have stayed in the White House after lying under oath, you can't really think that a candidate for MDP chair is unfit for the office because he didn't vote in 2010.
[ Parent ]
sure
That is another example of Lon supports dodging simple questions that would be asked of anyone that wanted to join the executive committee of a county party.

Trying to pretend to over look Lon's negatives like the UAW, him not voting in 2010, his questionable MDP membership, him not being involved in the party, him dodging questions about prop 2 and whether he would seek office in 2014 is just nonsense. If he can't take basic questions and answer to his negatives, that again would be asked of anyone joining a county executive committee, then he doesn't belong in the race.

[ Parent ]
Dodgeball?
I wasn't at the meeting.  From comments above, it sounds like he actually answered the question about voting and 2010.  So how exactly did he dodge it?
[ Parent ]
.
As I said Lon supporters. Trying to pretend that his negatives are not legitimate while many also put near total blame on Brewer for things that are well beyond a chairs control and on the hands of caucuses or the uaw themselves is nonsense.
[ Parent ]
its sad
Prove more and more that most of his supporters are armchair generals and don't have a single idea of what is going on with in the party.

Furthermore by now the uaw knows it's in trouble with the multiple congressional chair and county endorsements lon is running out of breathing space quickly, uaw only chance is to sum how avoid a floor fight, cause at this point mark would win a floor fight.

[ Parent ]
Blueboxing
Must have a dog in this hunt as he/she doesn't care what argument is presented - it's all about minor issues that should disqualify Lon.  I know people who have taken jobs to work with progressive groups in DC and then have come back to MI.  I know these folks have busted their butts wherever they are and have forwarded the progressive cause.  As long as Lon has fought for the same issues that I'm interested in and has worked in positions that give him the right experience, he is qualified.  Whether they spent each month or day or year in MI in the past should not be the qualification.  We need fresh blood here - the party is not bringing new people in, needs more active leadership, and fresh ideas.  Case closed.
[ Parent ]
And, that would be half the people who've contributed to this blog in the past...
Laura Packard lived outside the state for awhile and moved back. Julielyn Gibbons lived in D.C. for a time, and moved back. Cece Grant bounces back and forth like a ping-pong ball.

And, those are just the people off the top of my head.

Among the Trees

[ Parent ]
.
I would assume every Democrat in the state that cares has a dog in this race.

The point is Lon was not doing any of those things and you did not read that anywhere either. He said plain as day in his press conference he has not worked in politics since '07 until he ran for office basically working to elect himself.

From 07 tell he ran for office he was working for a private equity investment company which is based down south, not working to elect Democrats until he tried to elect himself in '12.

[ Parent ]
I'm not on anyone's payroll
My name is on that list. I was a neighborhood team leader for part of the 2012 campaign and never heard of Lon until a few weeks ago. So, I'm definitely not on his payroll. I've been a member of the MDP since 2006 or 2007 and have worked on a number of campaigns. Even before I became active in the party, I had been a lifelong Democrat. A person can be a loyal Dem without being a member of the party.
[ Parent ]
is no
Is no one going to touch the fact the a good chunk of these people work for him. Does that not smack of desperate to roll endorsements of people working for you
What's with the Democratic tea party wing supporting Brewer?
At least twice now you've slung out the accusation that anyone endorsing Johnson on this site or elsewhere are on his payroll. Proof, sir, or please crawl back into your tea cup with these flimsy charges.

[ Parent ]
ummm..
First name on the list sir, is there person who sign the post.
[ Parent ]
also
not to mention that it has already been said here and on other sites that he has picked up former OFA and PWF organizers, to help on his campaign, a few of who, name's appear on this list. Many of these people are out of jobs and are organizers for hire.  
[ Parent ]
Not at all
I was heavily involved in party activities particularly in organizing.  I got burned by no support, terrible people being hired to run the so-called Coordinated Campaign, and the suspicions of anyone new having an agenda.  Not saying Mark was to blame for all but there needs to be some change in the way people are brought into the party and gotten involved.
[ Parent ]
ok.....
Which cc were you involved in, most if them are run by that area congress person, for example in sander's district his staff runs the cc, and in other areas am pretty sure it's run by DemCom, which mark has no control over either of these, so why are you blaming mark?

[ Parent ]
I am in CD 8
Held by Mike Rogers (R). I got the impression that the MDP ran the CC in this CD or the 8th CD Democrats did.  Either way it was a fiasco.  They hired clueless newbies to be head of the district effort and I finally hung it up in frustration.  If Mark or the MDP was not involved in any way, then someone needed to be.  
[ Parent ]
hmm
was any of them named Thomas Collins, Kristopher Banks, or Kevin Hrit, otherwise they weren't from the MDP, and speaking of which I believe this people were all loaned out, to MI-11 Special Election, Supreme Court, and M-1. I know that after you call them newbies you probably don't want to give names, but that would help identify what organization that they were from. It could have also been OFA or PWF they were other major player in the state for boots on the ground.
[ Parent ]
For the sake of clarity:
She is speaking of a time over six years ago (Before OFA, before the present hires of the MDP field staff).

Great Lakes, Great Times.
[ Parent ]
Mike is right
I am talking about from 2004-2006.  MDP field staff were good then from what I remember
[ Parent ]
so?
So Mark has made new hires, and has work to improve the party, sense then. Or do you feel that it hasn't  improved? what is your issue your trying to make cause all I got now was that you had a issue 6 years ago, which you still haven't made clear with who.
[ Parent ]
Status of that group?
I would like to know, of that group of OFA organizers, how many:

1.  Are MDP members, and when did they join?
2.  Voted in 2010?

"Action is what separates a belief from an opinion."

another good question
On top of the being on his payroll, how many even have activate mdp memberships
[ Parent ]
Here's a question...
What does it matter? As far as I can tell, OFA has had more success than the MDP over the last half decade winning important elections. Isn't the point of this ultimately to win? Is it more important to be pure than to be successful?

Among the Trees
[ Parent ]
OFA is Obama
One of the things that just bothers me a bit is the assumption that there is some kind of OFA magic.  It didn't exist in 2010, and I would be (happily) surprised if it existed in 2014.  OFA is a candidate driven organization, and it is focused on federal elections (well, actually one in particular).

I would like to see OFA make the transition, primarily because they are just doing what Truman did in 1948, except with computers et al.  I am just not sure if they can get the same committment for the more gritty nuts and bolts elections.

[ Parent ]
Yes OFA has been so successful
they've won 2 elections, against horrible opponents, and even more so they have interact horrible with the more parties. Plus, they don't all there technology and stuff and ran back to Chicago, they have left nothing ,but the ID's in VAN, so yea OFA did a great job.
[ Parent ]
Its also OFA v local party
In Kent County, it was a separate operation entirely. Most of us "regulars" were the ones doing the door to door for folks like Winnie Brinks. I'm not sure that OFA really built an organization that will build the local political community.

Long term success, not to mention quality recruitment of candidates will continue to be the responsibility of local networks.  

[ Parent ]
Totally agree
The biggest complaint from folks on the ground is that OFA comes in, takes up (some parties will say take over) the headquarters space and resources, and blocks local support. They come across as know-it-alls and piss ofs grassroots volunteers. County party organizations then organize, on behalf of their local candidates (and state house & senate).  Never has the OFA jointly planned field.  Luckily, in our case, the local party had great support from the Laborers and SEIU.  Without them, our candidates would have been SOL.

"Action is what separates a belief from an opinion."
[ Parent ]
And yet another
I have no clue how many of these OFA folks are MDP members.  But even if none of them are, isn't it a positive sign that people who aren't involved in the party are getting involved with it?  Shouldn't the MDP want to attract new members, and more importantly new activists?
[ Parent ]
not new
,but that thing, none of this people are that new, they been around for a few years, or even longer, they don't want to actually get involve in leadership, just complain that it sucks.
[ Parent ]
For many of those Oakland County names:
That is not the case. I cannot vouch for other areas of the state, but a number of those Oakland County organizers were new to the local party scene, but have integrated themselves as consistent local activists. Those Waterford names became active members of the local club throughout the cycles, for example.

I write to prove or disprove nothing, but only to vouch for their hard work and involvement.

Great Lakes, Great Times.

[ Parent ]
I'm on the list
and have been a member of the MDP since 2006 or 2007. I have never missed voting in any election.
[ Parent ]
Status Quo Defenders
Will find any reason to nitpick away at Lon Johnson. How are you benefiting from Mark Brewer at the helm of the MDP? I don't think anybody's support for Lon is a rejection of Brewer. Rather, it is an acknowledgement that eighteen years is long enough and sometimes a new perspective and organizational/management structure can spark change.
um
How is in status quo defending, when like i said one of my reason is that lon is back by the uaw one of the major contriubing factor to the status quo
[ Parent ]
sorry bout that on my phone
Supporting mark is breaking with the uaw. Far from the status quo, and also one of the main reason the party has not reached out to other interest groups. It is not so much support for mark, as much as support for unshackling the mdp from a lumbering, regressive organization that has too much pull in the party for it's size.
[ Parent ]
Fair points on UAW
But the way I've heard it, the UAW was planning to back somebody (read: anybody) against Brewer and they got on board with Lon because he stepped out and actually seemed credible. I don't think Lon's candidacy was cooked up by UAW leadership. Retaining Brewer will do little to no good in advancing Democratic agendas in MI.
[ Parent ]
your order is actions is wrong.
Lon did not announce to run, then get the endorsement. He announce after the UAW started floating his name, after they started trying to find someone to blame for prop 2 that wasn't named Bob King.

Furthermore the congressional delegation isn't that big a endorsement, they have name rec, but no votes behind them, beside their own, and they have been headhunting for Mark for years.  

[ Parent ]
So
They clearly see something you're missing? Instead of nitpicking a vote in 2010 when the guy was living in other parts of the country (working on behalf of Dems no less), why don't you actually defend Brewer? I know I'm giving you nothing to work with there, but that's how these debates should go. Defend your guy instead of finding meaningless criticisms of the other. If Lon had donated or volunteered for a Republican, voted Republican, something, you might have a case against him. As it stands right now, you don't.  
[ Parent ]
I occasionally vote Republican
I realize that I'm not running for MDP chairman, but there are times -- in local races and especially during primaries -- when I vote for Republicans. For instance, in 2010, I voted in the Republican primary because the guy running against Brian Calley in our local state senate race sent out a mailing that in essence called me a jerk, and because half of our county officials, especially the sheriff, were settled in the GOP primary.

So, I don't know, voting for Republicans isn't always as awful as people on this site make it out to be.

Among the Trees

[ Parent ]
In the general
Perhaps should have clarified. But when I think about these issues, I don't consider voting in a primary as "voting ____." When I say "voting Republican" I mean voting for a Republican when a Democratic candidate was available.
[ Parent ]
I think I might have done this, too.
I think I voted for Bernero, but I was also so horrified by his campaign that I might not have voted for him. I've certainly voted for local Republicans over Democrats where I've known the Democrats and didn't think they belonged within seven nautical miles of elected office, especially where the Republican is a competent incumbent (again, our local sheriff comes to mind).

Among the Trees
[ Parent ]
Fair enough
Particularly for somebody like you in a more rural-ish area.

Although my point was that voting for a Republican might be one way for somebody like warhawkgundam to have an argument against Lon, not necessarily that it would be a winning argument. Absent even that, warhawk has nothing.

[ Parent ]
I agree
In a way, I'm helping you make your point that a lot of the criticisms being aimed at Lon Johnson aren't really substantive. There are reasons why someone might miss an election. There are reasons why someone might vote in a Republican race or for Republicans in a general election. There are even reasons why someone might give money to a Republican candidate (for instance, a longstanding personal friendship). Pointing at someone and yelling, "Unclean" isn't making a case against that person.

Among the Trees
[ Parent ]
Sorry I didn't respond
I was AFK delivering lunch to my SO for valentine's day, to your point. I have had problems with Mark in the past, he hasn't been perfect by any stretch of the imagination, normality I would say I would support Lon, however, and it a big however, for all of Mark problems over the years his biggest one has been how close he has been to the UAW, that has also been a problem for the party as whole. So given that in this situation were there is a chance they the UAW sway over the party can be knock down a few pegs and decouples it death grip on the party, I feel that is a better change for fixing the Party as a whole rather then putting a new face on the party ,but keeping the same people behind the throne, running things. All that being said, Lon has some serious issues beyond this. Yes I expect the people I vote to Represent me to at least have the ability to care about the office and the Party, choosing to sit on the Sidelines in 2010 said he does really have his heart in it, and really anyone that defends this, your defending everyone that did sit on the sidelines, and indirectly endorsing the Republicans and everything that they have done sense comeing to power, if you don't vote, you don't get to bitch about the outcome. Another thing I really have a issue with, for someone to believe that they feel they are entitled to a pay increase, just because all other Party chair get pay that, that horrible reasoning, if anything Mark should get a Pay increase because he is currently doing 3 jobs, if Lon want to just be a figurehead that kisses babies, cut ribbons, go to event on the parties dime, and raise money, he doesn't need to be making 160k, try 60k at most. Next yes again I expect someone I choose to represented me to care about the party and the state, not to be looking ahead to the next office and the next rung on the ladder, we elected you do a job, if you do and do it well maybe you will move up, but you better be focus on the job. Yes these are Character flaws, but they are serious issues ones that lead right to where the Republicans are Nationality, with the like of Rush, Huckbee,and all the others that are out just to make a Buck on that side of the Aisle.
[ Parent ]
That's what I heard, too
If he were the UAW's hand-picked boy, the odds are pretty good that during last week's conference call with reporters that he would have been introduced by a UAW person, not someone previously affiliated with the OFA.

Why do I say that? Because that's just how these things work.

Among the Trees

[ Parent ]
come on
I know the UAW is slow on the uptick, but you don't think they would want to avoid paint Lon with there Bush to early, for fear of this exact debate?
[ Parent ]
That is pure speculation.
When it comes to things like this, I don't engage in speculation. I work with what I know to be factual.

Among the Trees
[ Parent ]
there are lawls here
the only reason I don't make hay on this, Apparently the UAW and those on the board that formed the messaging for Prop 2 seemed to have fail to predict the attack on Prop 2 of "HAND OFF BY CONSTITUTION!!!!". Something am sure a kindergartner could have told you would come.

So as much as I want to dismiss this as them being smart, history tells me there really not that smart. so point to you sir.

[ Parent ]
If so, it was the same mistake made by the backers of Props. 3, 4, 5, and 6
If Proposal 2 had been the ONLY constitutional amendment on the ballot, all these arguments would have more credibility.

But since ALL SIX proposals failed (with Proposal 1's failure causing the repeal of Public Act 4, a "win" for our side that was quickly undone during the Inflamed Duck), then that means everyone from the Tea Party to Matty Moroun to the environmental lobby to the SEIU failed to predict that line of attack.

"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." ~ Harlan Ellison

[ Parent ]
Eric,
From what I understand he was introduced by someone who very close to the UAW, a Genesee Dem, and anyone who knows anything about Campaign Finance knows that the Genesee County Dem Party's money comes from the UAW.  Unless you believe that a County Party in one of the poorest areas of the state raised enough money to fund Virg Bernero's state wide TV ads for the 2010 Primary by by holding pancake breakfasts and hot dog lunches.  
[ Parent ]
.
That is speculation and is not true at all. Why would he want a UAW person introducing him when they are not respected for a reason.

I am not sure how many folks got that gem of an email today from the UAW but to just share an excerpt of why they really should not be making decisions:

"Those were amazing victories, but unfortunately Michigan Democrats did not gain a House majority, nor a majority in the Senate, and lost two out of three Supreme Court races. These kinds of losses and other disappointments like Right to Work legislation show us it's time to re-energize the Michigan Democratic Party."

In the UAW's world Brewer should go because we did not take back the State Senate in '12 (yes you are reading that correct), because their hand picked Supreme Court Candidates did not win and because RTW was passed after they screwed up everything in Prop 2.

[ Parent ]
not.
Not to mention that their Prop 2 Campaign suck up people and money and took it away from what could have been winning races at least in the House,and supreme court race this year.
[ Parent ]
Totally out-of-touch
That email from King/UAW was funny only in the sense that he/they didn't realize that the senate races weren't up in 2012?

That being said, that email made it very, very clear that the UAW is behind all this.  To think otherwise is..... (I'll let you fill in the blank).

This whole debate is less about Lon and more about UAW control of the party.  That has to change and it can't happen with their candidate.

"Action is what separates a belief from an opinion."

[ Parent ]
Where are the no-shows?
So, Johnson has a number of OFA endorsements.  Brewer has a number of MDP endorsements.  I don't read much into either list.  The OFA is a list of young folks, some on the payroll.  The MDP is a list of older hands, many with personal ties.  Just as an aside - does anyone believe that the OFA survives the end of the Obama admin.?

Johnson has the Congressional delegation.  Brewer has the people who get the Congressional delegation elected.  Johnson has the UAW and the Steelworkers.  Brewer has MEA, Laborers and Carpenters.

Where is AFSCME, SEIU and others?  

..
AFSCME, won't endorse, they like to sit on the fence when it comes to this kinda of stuff, inner-party fighting.

SEIU I have no idea

[ Parent ]
When you say,
"Brewer has Union X, Johnson has Union Y", you mean some small number of folks at the very top of those unions made a decision to support that candidate. It does NOT mean that those union members are coming to the convention -- and it does NOT mean that the members who do are voting the way their 'union' (actually, that small number of folks) says they should.

In fact, I have spoken with four people (out of a small sample of folks I've found who are going) who shall remain nameless here who are in leadership positions in locals who are either voting opposite their 'union' or considering doing so.

Solidarity does not mean a whole lot when it is not a group decision in the first place.

[ Parent ]
And it doesn't need to be said
That at the convention, it's a Public Vote
[ Parent ]
That list is not all young folks
I'm far from young. Maybe most of the paid staff is young, but not all of us who were neighborhood team leaders, etc. In fact, our field organizer, who was paid staff, is in her 40s. Far younger than I am, but not what I think you meant by "young."
[ Parent ]
and that field organizer is
I saw Sharon working the campaign, and the experienced field organizer (and long-time activist) she mentions is also on the list.
[ Parent ]
Johnson picks up the endorsements of 50 OFA organizers | 89 comments

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