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Mark Brewer doesn't support neutral party running this weekend's convention

by: Eric B.

Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 10:00:58 AM EST

Last week, a request was made by five members of the MDP's Executive Committee to have this weekend's convention run by a neutral party not involved in the state party chairman's race. Lon Johnson agreed to this almost immediately. Yesterday, Chad Selweski of the Macomb Daily reported that Brewer had also agreed. That is not the case. The following letter was sent to the people who'd made the request. This morning, the Brewer folks verified its accuracy.

I am responding to your e-mail received at 6 pm February 14, 2013.  

I appreciate your concern with ensuring that we have a fair State Convention. I’m sure fairness was at the forefront of your mind when we adopted the rules and procedures on December 1, 2012 that govern the Convention, a meeting you presumably attended.

These rules and procedures, adopted unanimously by the Michigan Democratic State Central Committee, guarantee fairness to all.  Moreover I’m confident the Chair and the members of the Executive Committee --- including yourselves --- selected by the MDSCC will serve capably in this role.

As you know, our party has never insisted that any party officer, Chair, Vice Chair or elected official resign from their post or step aside from their duties when a candidate has filed against them. At the time these rules were adopted, it was known I would be a candidate for MDP Chair.  The rules were designed to ensure fairness then, and I’m confident they will work in the way you intended them on Feb. 23.

Moreover, as you know, any action of the rules and credentials committee, an advisory body, must be approved by the total delegate body of the state convention. No rules or resolutions or procedures or the chair of the convention can be imposed on that delegate body. That body is the sole determinant of the rules and procedures.

So I’m confident that we collectively as officers of the Party will deliver a fair recommendation to the Convention and if there are disagreements there is a process for working these out.  


Mark Brewer

P.S. As you know these rules were adopted because we do not have any of the new Congressional Districts until the date of the Convention.

Submitted without comment.

Eric B. :: Mark Brewer doesn't support neutral party running this weekend's convention
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Two things...

1) What a lousy, lousy reporting job by Chad Selweski of the Macomb Daily.  How did he come to report that Mark Brewer accepted the neutrality proposal? I hope he can explain. Mistakes happen but this seems really sloppy.

2)Speaking of mistakes. It seems to me that it is a mistake for Brewer to reject the neutrality proposal, incredibly dumb and accomplishes nothing to advance his cause unless he plans shenanigans over rules and credentials at the convention--a tactic that would almost certainly backfire. He should have taken the high road like Lon Johnson. But old habits die hard I guess.  

Indulging a rare opportunity to say "I told you so",
rare because I'm don't usually get these things right  :)  I want to point out that I was skeptical of this report in the previous thread.

Credentials will be important
There was a huge uptick in Party membership purchases before the deadline.  Hopefully, that is because folks were really invigorated by the Obama results and thirty to beat back the RTW legislation et al.  Maybe it was because the UAW is trying to buy a race (which is well within their rights to do under our Rules).

At any rate, with so many "new" members, credentials will be very important.  

Do you happen to know how many new memberships?
Or anything at all about where (what districts)?

If they are in districts/counties already dominated by one side, under the proportional voting rules, extra bodies don't count for much. Also, the new memberships could well be from both sides, given the labor is split on this one.

But I imagine it would be hard to figure all that out in a few days, even if we had the data. I have been polling the Sixth District, and what I have been noticing is how unpredictable this race is, in terms of who is supporting whom. Young people are by no means uniformly backing Johnson, nor older folks Brewer. I have had several officers of locals in our district, out of a small sample (and who will remain nameless here), tell me that they were either voting for or considering a vote opposite to what their union is endorsing. And out of 34 people who I have confirmed are attending, 11 are still undecided, at least when I talked with them.  

Anyhow, we'll know in five days!

[ Parent ]
I don't have a hard number
In mid to late January, I heard that there was a surge of membership.  Anyone who has signed up new members at the local level knows that we are notorious for taking a long time sifting that out, with no implications involved at all.  It just takes a long time to get the check cleared, processed in Lansing and a name on a membership list to appear.

Now, with many new names presumed to be joining for the Chair race, the process should be quite interesting.  Add to that the fact that precinct delegates do not have to be members for 30 days to vote at the Convention, and we have all the making of great drama.  

[ Parent ]
weather forecast: big turnout
Right now the forecast for Saturday is clear and 37 in Detroit with only light snow as far north as Marquette.

[ Parent ]
Forecast-Big Turnout doesn't matter
Remember the vote is proportional if a bunch of people show up from Macomb, Wayne, and Oakland, it doesn't matter those area's only have X amount of votes / among the people that show up

[ Parent ]
It Should Matter
Although the votes is apportioned by a complicated formula tied to the number of votes Bensen received for SOS, the contestants still need to deliver votes to get their share.

[ Parent ]
no they don't they default to the way the Congressional district's over all votes goes, 1 person can cast a whole congressional district's votes, at least from my understanding

[ Parent ]
does matter
for the precise reason you state:  folks up north will have good driving weather.  

[ Parent ]
not many going to drive X amount hours to get there
I say anyone farther then 2-4 hours away and your going to see a major drop in the amount of people

[ Parent ]
Cause you would be looking at either 4-8 overall drive time in one day, or getting a hotel.

[ Parent ]
Most of Sixth District 3 hours away, and we have only about 40 people coming.

[ Parent ]
I know for a fact
That the check sent to the MDP by the UAW for membership, wasn't that big.

[ Parent ]
As you know, our party has never insisted that any party officer, Chair, Vice Chair or elected official resign from their post or step aside from their duties when a candidate has filed against them. At the time these rules were adopted, it was known I would be a candidate for MDP Chair.  The rules were designed to ensure fairness then, and I'm confident they will work in the way you intended them on Feb. 23.

I don't think anyone has asked for any of the MDP officers to resign, at least not publicly. Its not unusual for elections to be conducted by an appointed committee or a presidium.

UAW stone arm Tactic's and etc.
All the Strong arm tactics I've been seeing from the UAW, intimidating elected officials, and Club chairs, has been hilarious, in a bad way, because the UAW is really pushing for avoid a floor fight, everything I've heard from that keeps saying that mark should step down, so we can avoid a floor fight. Saturday going to be interesting indeed

What evidence do you have that they've been intimidating elected officials? Maybe club chairs because they have no leverage. Electeds should feel fairly safe being with the UAW as well as with MEA/SEIU/etc.  

[ Parent ]
where's the proof of your accusation?
You keep bashing the UAW without any evidence whatsoever.  Which tea party do you below to?

[ Parent ]
you guys really need to read more
It's been report that after the county commiser came out and endorse, one reported that UAW Officer call and told him that if they didn't take back the endorsement they would lose the UAW support.

I'm not claim, someone else reported

[ Parent ]
here you go Bubba
"Brewer supporters quickly countered with a press release announcing that seven of the nine Democrats on the Macomb County Board of Commissioners had endorsed the chairman. I'm told that, within minutes of that release going online, a UAW official called one of these commissioners and suggested that, if he didn't withdraw his endorsement, his buddy-buddy relationship with the union was over."


There you go Bubba, now go crawl back into your hole. please.

[ Parent ]
Is what your 'evidence' makes me do.  

[ Parent ]
Not Sourced

[ Parent ]
I happen to know
Which Macomb official made that quote. And also have firsthand knowledge of other UAW strong arm tactics.  

[ Parent ]
man and I was waiting for them to go at me again, I was going to say that obviously, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein were wrong too, sense they never disclose there source either.  

[ Parent ]
about 'tactics' is what people who are losing usually do. You don't think every single of these entities (unions on both sides of Brewer/Johnson, etc) don't do the same thing every time there's any vote of consequence in Lansing or elsewhere? C'mon!

[ Parent ]
Bernstein and Woodward
Bernstein and Woodward confirmed information with multiple independent sources before they published. But the originating source had to have a good reason not to have their identity placed on the record - and the stories were carefully vetted by the editorial staff. Oh, and Bernstein and Woodward did not publish opinion columns masquerading as news.

And even after all that, Berstein and Woodward still got things wrong. Certainly it helped to have the Number Two in the FBI as "Deep Throat," but he was technically breaking the law when he fed information to the Washington Post. That was a good reason to stay off the record.

While Selweski makes "hay" over Johnson's code issues, he said nearly nothing about McGuinness' on the record accusation that Brewer was behind the Fake Tea Party.

[ Parent ]
Talk about credibility issues
The "reporter" is the same guy who got Brewer's position on neutrality wrong.

Not to mention the sourcing.

[ Parent ]
From above:
Yesterday, Chad Selweski of the Macomb Daily reported that Brewer had also agreed. That is not the case. The following letter was sent to the people who'd made the request. This morning, the Brewer folks verified its accuracy.

Your evidence is based on unsourced information from not only the same reporter, but the same article, that is being contradicted in this post. As such, the evidence has zero credibility.

[ Parent ]
I like your guys logical fallacy
A=C so B=C mmm right guys?

[ Parent ]
"I'm told that, within minutes of that release going online, a UAW official called one of these commissioners and suggested that, if he didn't withdraw his endorsement, his buddy-buddy relationship with the union was over."

Implied he has a source, for this quote, and no he doesn't have to to tell who that sources is.

[ Parent ]
That's not what a fallacy is...
As you are making an assertion (namely that the UAW is using strong arm tactics), the burden is on you to provide evidence in support of such an assertion. As the source of your information is of questionable veracity based on his writing things that we know to be untrue on the subject under discussion. Thus, we are disinclined to accept anything else he writes on the subject as true without it being backed up from another, more credible source.

Now, I would be making a logical fallacy (namely an argument from fallacy) if I said that since Selweski was wrong about the neutral party question, that means that the UAW is not using strong arm tactics. That is not the case. Indeed, I would not be remotely surprised if they were. However, a vague statement from Selweski is not going to lead me to conclude that they are.

[ Parent ]
I happen to know (4.00 / 2)
Which Macomb official made that quote. And also have firsthand knowledge of other UAW strong arm tactics.  
by: DocHopper @ Mon Feb 18, 2013 at 19:04:59 PM EST

oh look someone was nice enough to corroborate for us  

[ Parent ]
While a commenter on a blog is again questionable corroboration, I did my own research and am indeed willing to accept that the UAW is using what amounts to strong arm tactics in support of Johnson.

Regardless, my comments were based on your evidence, not what other people provided. Also, for the record, I don't really have much of a preference as to who wins this. I view it as an incompetent chair running against someone I know little about who is backed by the equally incompetent UAW. And I'm not a member of the MDP, so I have no say in the matter anyway.

[ Parent ]
It's happening
Lots of pressure being applied to local party chairs and members, and Club chairs.

"Action is what separates a belief from an opinion."

[ Parent ]
Can some kind soul tell us how many votes there are?
I am curious how many votes there are for the Convention and what the proportion is for each county.  Not that I'm asking anyone to stop doing their paying job to figure this out for me, but if someone has it handy (I'm assuming its a useful tally in some quarters 'bout now), it would be a nice public service for us junkies.  Thanks.

The official call to convention went out in December.
It included the new county SADV (State Allocation of Delegate Vote), which is still based on the 2010 Secretary of State vote, but updated for Congressional District redistricting changes. I think I will need to cut this in pieces:


1 Alcona  3
Alger  3
Alpena  8
Antrim  7
Baraga  2
Benzie  6
Charlevoix  7
Cheboygan  7
Chippewa  9
Crawford  3
Delta             11
Dickinson  6
Emmet  8
Gogebic  5
Grand Traverse 23
Houghton  9
Iron  4
Kalkaska  3
Keweenaw  1
Leelanau  9
Luce  1
Mackinac  3
Manistee  7
Marquette 21
Mason (part)  2
Menominee  6
Montmorency  2
Ontonagon  2
Oscoda  2
Otsego  5
Presque Isle  4
Schoolcraft  3
TOTAL          192

2 Allegan (part)  2
Kent (part) 32
Lake  3
Mason (part)  5
Muskegon 50
Newaygo  9
Oceana  6
Ottawa 42
TOTAL           149

[ Parent ]

3 Barry 13
Calhoun 34
Ionia 12
Kent (part)           105
Montcalm (part)   1
TOTAL           165

4 Clare  7
Clinton           20
Gladwin  7
Gratiot              8
Isabella 13
Mecosta  8
Midland 19
Missaukee  2
Montcalm (part) 11
Ogemaw  6
Osceola  4
Roscommon  7
Saginaw (part) 32
Shiawassee 19
Wexford   6
TOTAL           169

5 Arenac  4
Bay 36
Genesee           146
Iosco   8
Saginaw (part) 32
Tuscola (part)   4
TOTAL           230

6 Allegan (part) 21
Berrien 32
Cass   9
Kalamazoo 69
St. Joseph 10
Van Buren 16
TOTAL            157

7 Branch  8
Eaton             35
Hillsdale  8
Jackson 36
Lenawee 24
Monroe 40
Washtenaw (part) 28
TOTAL            179

[ Parent ]

8 Ingham  93
Livingston  41
Oakland (part)  53

9 Macomb (part) 159
Oakland (part)  76

10 Huron    8
Lapeer  20
Macomb (part)  70
St. Clair  38
Sanilac    8
Tuscola (part)   10

[ Parent ]

11 Oakland (part)            106
Wayne (part)              79

12 Washtenaw (part) 111
Wayne (part)            130

13 Wayne (part) 323

14 Oakland (part)            160
Wayne (part) 143


[ Parent ]
Well thank you kind soul n/t

[ Parent ]
Ask and ye shall receive

[ Parent ]
Anyway to guess
How they will vote, base on endorsements?

[ Parent ]
I said in a comment above
...that folks you would expect to be voting one way based on their union affiliation are not necessarily doing so. And I have hard evidence that County Chair endorsements are not having any significant influence on the votes from those counties.

You can expect that a county's vote will line up IF that County PARTY has endorsed, because that is based on an actual vote, many of the same people being the attendees at the Convention. But only a handful of counties have endorsed: Genesee, Iosco, and Kalkaska for Lon, Grand Traverse, Macomb and Montcalm for Mark. And members there are still free to vote their conscience, but you can expect a majority to go in the indicated direction.

I know that some folks respect and wait for the Justice Caucus endorsement. That is the group I am affiliated with.

More will listen to the MDP Black Caucus, which has gone for Lon.

I don't think individual endorsements of legislators, former legislators, party leaders, etc. count for much. In any case, they are lined up on both sides, all the Congressionals and more state legislators with Lon, more Party leaders with Mark.

The bottom line is that for the most part, a deciding plurality of delegates are slow in making up their minds, and I believe it will come down to whether they think Lon can deliver, based on his background -- or not.

[ Parent ]
SEIU Endorses!!!!!
SEIU just Endorsed Mark!!!

This is not a troll post
People - especially you newbies - STOP troll-rating posts that aren't troll posts.  There are very, very few times when a 1 or 0 should ever be used.  Whether you agree with the other person or not, you shouldn't be absuing the ratings system.  I don't think people understand that these ratings have real-time consequences on the forum.  Too many low ratings, and the comments get hidden.


[ Parent ]
From the Michigan Liberal editorial policy:
From the Michigan Liberal editorial policy:

Behave Yourself

Personal attacks and insults, pure stupidity, and unsubstantiated rumor presented as fact are not allowed. Those comments are often troll-rated by the community until they disappear. If you make a controversial statement of fact, be prepared to back it up with proof. Do not plagiarize: if you are repeating information from another source, always include links to the original document. More information on how to handle copywrited material is available from our Posting Guidelines.

[ Parent ]
Justice Caucus
has just endorsed Lon Johnson.

...with 100% fewer exclamation points.

Nice Zing
Hey, SEIU along with AFSCME, and maybe Oakland and WayNe County party chairs are probably the biggest endorsements left on the table.

AFSCME will fence sit as will Oakland

Wayne I could see maybe going for Lon, but mainly cause they would never endorse Mark

[ Parent ]
There is no Wayne County Democratic Party
The Democratic Party is organized, in Wayne County only, by Congressional district.  As far as I know, there simply is no such entity as "the Wayne County Democratic Party".  It has no officers, doesn't meet, has no legal status, and doesn't caucus.

All those functions - in Wayne County only - are handled by CD committees, which do NOT include the portion of the district outside Wayne.

This structure is set up in state law, and dates back to the time Wayne was almost half the entire state.

[ Parent ]
Was gonna
say this but Grebner wins. Warhawk is the same guy surprised by 'tactics' being employed to convince delegates to back a certain candidate.

[ Parent ]
am not surprised, been in politics a long time

[ Parent ]
not as familiar with Wayne county politics, tho

[ Parent ]
hence why, I didn't know.

[ Parent ]

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