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Our ongoing experiment in the Dunning-Kruger effect: All your uterus now belong to us

by: Eric B.

Wed Dec 11, 2013 at 17:40:03 PM EST


They done did it today, meddled in the marketplace and declared that women should now just plan to get raped and take out extra insurance in case it happens.

The abortion issue is a difficult one, I realize. But, this isn't difficult. This is about making use of a loophole in constitutional process to grab an outcome you probably wouldn't get if things worked the way they intended.  The legislative approval of a citizens' referendum was intended to be a bulwark against an obnoxious executive, not to allow a minority to trample the rights of the majority.

Eric B. :: Our ongoing experiment in the Dunning-Kruger effect: All your uterus now belong to us
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As I commented on an earlier post, they also did this with D&X (4.00 / 1)
about 10 years ago.  This seems to be the Right's method of choice for getting abortion restrictions passed over a Governor's veto, be it Granholm or Snyder.  You don't even need a supermajority, just a couple hundred thousand signatures and simple majorities.  Pretty sweet.  Along with token appropriations, this constitutional quirk is being abused for anti-democratic purposes by Republicans with increasing frequency.  Can this eventually be fixed by initiative, or only a new constitution?

I finally looked up the "Dunning-Kruger effect", and I am not sure how the concept of poorly qualified people overestimating their abilities applies to this legislature.  They seem to be turning Michigan into a know-nothing Right-wing yahoo paradise with pretty impressive speed.  Seems to me they're actually quite well-qualified to do that.


Simple (0.00 / 0)
These clowns fancy themselves as deep thinking statesmen who are doing nothing more than making hard choices for the sake of our common prosperity. In reality they're doing something entirely different.

Among the Trees

[ Parent ]
Gone (4.00 / 1)
I'm tired of the Detroit church lady caucus, as I like to call it.  Thankfully, it's grown mercifully small, but the horse trading it must have required to get Tupac Hunter into the minority floor chair must have been epic.  I'm so glad this guy is termed out.  And, in the the other chamber, John Olumba continues his me-me-me schtick.  He needs to be primaried.  We can do better in these particular seats, which is why I haven't brought up the two(?) rural Dems that voted in favor of this in the House, which I think are about as good as we get in those districts.

Really, just like Right to Work, whatever you believe of the actual legislation - and this crap is horrible - how they've gone about doing it is just as a repugnant, and even if I were for it, I'd vote in protest on the mechanism alone.  There is no legitimate reason enough for me that we should have had any Democratic defections given the dubious process by which this got to them.  They didn't have to make these votes.


Olumba primary (4.00 / 1)
Clarence Gayles has launched a campaign for the 3rd District seat so hopefully Olumba will be out next year.  

[ Parent ]
Thanks (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for showing me that name.  I might have to toss him a few bones when the time comes.

Again, we can do way better in a place as blue as Detroit than these abortion concern trolls.  I'm not huge on litmus test, but I'm really tiring of these "conscience votes" on women's health issue.  It's time to come down on the side of reason, and stop playing footsy with the religious on this particular issue, whether they be on the left or right on other issues, because this is effecting real people's actual lives.  

Abortion is not a tough issue (as I hear even many Dems try to spin it) if you believe in the primacy of a secular government.  You don't want an abortion?  Don't have one, be a dick and preach to the women in your life not to have one, but don't you dare try to codify your narrow religious beliefs into law.  Ain't nobody got time for that.  If abortion is your pet issue, stay out of government and work to reduce the numbers in some other sphere of society.  Oh, and if you really care about reducing abortions, stop fighting against birth control, too.  This shouldn't even have to be said.


[ Parent ]
Clarification (0.00 / 0)
Quick clarification.  When I said "abortion is not a tough issue" I meant as a person's capacity as a voter.  There are plenty of women who, either because of their religious beliefs or because their pregnancy is a wanted one, will face an excruciating dilemna.  But, that brings us back to the heart of the issue: that the government should recognize this to be a woman's choice.  

I wanted to be very clear about this, as I don't want my words misconstrued as being dismissive of the choice once it reaches a personal level.  But, in one's capacity as a voter, most abortion issues should not be a tough vote for those who truly believe in secular government.  


[ Parent ]
question i posed over at electablog (0.00 / 0)
Phil Perspective  Eclectablog • 3 hours ago −
Is someone already filing a lawsuit against this crap?

Eclectablog Mod  Phil Perspective • 3 hours ago
No. It's legal.

William Wilson  Eclectablog • 16 minutes ago
here the thing is it? after all you can not, not pay taxes in objection to war. Would the same not apply here, after all

"stood firm in their resolve and voted to ensure no person is forced to fund the deliberate taking of an innocent human life in the name of health care."- Right to Life President Barbara Listing

and "Rep. Amanda Price, R-Park Township, spoke in support of the measure on the House floor, arguing that residents who are morally opposed to abortion should not have to pay premiums for policies that include the coverage."

wouldn't this under mine the constitutional act of government levying taxes, otherwise what to stop a group of people gather a petition asking for no tax dollars going to fund Viagra, or a group against transfusions doing the same?(if it could pass as a proposal is another story)


lawsuit (4.00 / 2)
I haven't heard of a lawsuit, but one of our legislators (I forget which one) pretty much announced we'd be starting a petition drive to repeal this.  And to that I say "finally."  The MI Dems over the entirety of 2013 havve done an absolutely TERRIBLE job in harnessing the anger on the ground, which if they did harness, could win us back key offices, next year.

[ Parent ]
but but but (0.00 / 0)
Lon Johnson, man he is going to change the party, right, thats what he said right!!!

[ Parent ]
but seroius (4.00 / 1)
we should do a petition drive banning funding of viagra, the amount of troll your be legendary

[ Parent ]
Good (0.00 / 0)
It's about time we get some pushback against this legislature.

The good news is that "... no law adopted by the people at the polls under the initiative provisions of this section shall be amended or repealed, except by a vote of the electors unless otherwise provided in the initiative measure or by three-fourths of the members elected to and serving in each house of the Legislature." (Michigan Constitution, Art. II, Sec. 9)

The bad news is that there are so many potential proposals that could be offered next year (and so much potential for the other side to offer proposals of their own just to add to the confusion) that we could again end up with proposal fatigue, with low-info voters saying "I don't have time for this, I'm just gonna vote No on everything to be safe".

In addition, this already is shaping up to be an incredibly expensive election, with (I hope) seriously contested elections for the state offices and control of the legislature as well as the Senate seat. Nothing should be put on the ballot unless there will be sufficient resources behind it to allow for the advertising necessary to put it over the top.

I'm not saying repeal shouldn't be put on the ballot, it should. I'm just saying if it is on the ballot the prep work has to be done to make sure it passes.


[ Parent ]
Totally agree (0.00 / 0)
Though, I'd argue that next year's ballot doesn't look like it's going to be anywhere near as crowded as 2012 unless the GOP wants to waste precious resources to sabotage the whole process.  I wouldn't put it past them, but I also think they want to play as much defense as humanely possible.  

There were already pushes this same time in 2011 by all of the different interest groups on both sides to pack the ballot.  I don't see that, so far, and we're quickly coming up on the time where it would be too late to do the fundraising and the organization to pack the ballot.


[ Parent ]
what? (0.00 / 0)
Isn't there already 6 thins on the ballot already?

[ Parent ]
hmm I may be off a little (0.00 / 0)
we have 2 Anti-Wolf Hunt, Public Act 408, and the right to Life one just got voted through.

Potential ones are Pro-Wolf Hunt,"Right-to-Work" Ban Amendment,"Fair Use of Ballot Referendum" Amendment(thought this one had made it),Fracking Ban Initiative, Part-Time Legislature Amendment,Transportation Funding Amendment. Now we can add this Pro-Choice thing as a potential.


[ Parent ]
Potential vs. in planning (0.00 / 0)
You could think up "potential" ballot initiatives every year election year.  The point is that there were already signatures being collected or at least actual organization of issues around this time in 2011.  If you could show me formal organization around the "potential" initiatives you've posted, I'd like to see it.  

Again, the ballot, thus far, isn't looking like it's going to be as crowded as 2012.  That's not to say someone could spring a whole flurry of things in the next three or four months, but time is running out.  As things stand, now, we have nothing to imminently worry about.

BTW, the RTL one doesn't count because it didn't go to ballot.


[ Parent ]
It would be nice (4.00 / 4)
if the MDP stopped trying to "reach out" to the anti-choice crowd and stood up for reproductive choice--including access to the full range of family planning options.

A solid majority of Americans oppose an outright ban on abortions. It would be nice if one of the two political parties we allow ourselves (h/t Charlie Pierce) would get in line with public opinion.

A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul.


Instead of comparing (0.00 / 0)
this rider BS to restricting Viagra for guys, how about we compare it to requiring a rider for something serious like, say, prostate cancer? As soon as the discussion turns to boner pills, we've trivialized abortion by connecting it to recreational sex, which plays right into the anti-choicers favorite meme. This bill is going to affect more than just elective abortions--were those even covered in the first place? A woman who needs her ectopic pregnancy terminated will find herself in the same boat as one whose birth control failed, only with a much larger bill to pay.


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