McManus vs. Michigan's children: the cost of ideology

I just want to say again... (0.00 / 0)

...how incredibly cool this is! (except, of course, for Sen. McManus' shameful alleged response) These kids are a tremedous example of what's RIGHT with Michigan - and why we need to push back as hard as we can! God bless you all! You ARE making a difference!

"HAZEN S. PINGREE...He was the first to warn the people of the great danger threatened by powerful private corporations, and the first to awake to the great inequalities in taxation and to initiate steps for reforms. THE IDOL OF THE PEOPLE"

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by: Hazen Pingree @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 00:34:05 AM UTC

One more thing... (0.00 / 0)

For inspiration, I'm setting this picture as my desktop background.

"HAZEN S. PINGREE...He was the first to warn the people of the great danger threatened by powerful private corporations, and the first to awake to the great inequalities in taxation and to initiate steps for reforms. THE IDOL OF THE PEOPLE"

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by: Hazen Pingree @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 00:38:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Benzie protest (4.00 / 1)

I recieved this email earlier today from a mother who chaperoned the trip:

Friends of education: Your help is needed now!

Last Thursday 5/3, I was one of 18 parent chaperones with a group of 4th graders from Crystal Lake ELementary in Benzonia who toured Lansing. On the way there, several of us discussed the budget crisis, and then discussed citizenship and advocacy with our kids(part of 4th grade curriculum-core democratic values)---- we thought we would use the opportunity to write a message to our elected officials on the backs of our t-shirts-----SInce this was a group of active parents who are both republican and democrat, we decided the message should just be -125  (look at pix)  some people blamed the governor, some the senate and the house------the thing we agreed on is that the clock is ticking and we can't afford these kind of cuts---we quietly toured the zoo, the capitol and the museum -----So apparently, This touched a nerve with Sen. Michelle Mcmanus because she got on the phone mad as hell, and ranted to our school superintendent and several of our board members Thursday afternoon before we got home, and then called the capitol tour guide service trying to get us banned!  Please help get the word out to everyone you know----forward this and  then write a letter yourself. We're not sure if she was threatened by 4th graders or if she was feeling guilty because there are now faces attached to that  -125 dollars

email Sen. Mcmanus  @  senmmcmanus@senate.michigan.gov  with -125  in the subject line----- Please let her know that she is elected by us, and her Job is to LISTEN to US--and let her know that we are very disappointed in her unprofessional behavior , then let her know that ANY cut to schools will impact us and hurt our children---Another cut this year will be the third pro-ration cut in the last five years......As an elected official she has an obligation to provide Michigan with more than bargain basement services--- and that Education is the KEY economic developmental tool for Michigan---or try this one....Years of tax cuts have not helped strengthen the state's economy or balance the budget. It's time to try a different approach. I'll pay my two cents worth on services. Let's quit tax cutting and start looking realistically at what this state needs to move forward.-----Or ...With Michigan facing very tough times, we have to pull together to find solutions to the problems. More tax cuts are just wishful thinking. I'll pay my two cents worth because I want a bright future for my family and for this state------

Just be sure to write her asap! the school budget clock is ticking.........

Thanks for your help!

Lynette

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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by: michmark @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 02:18:58 AM UTC

Ah Benzie County! (4.00 / 1)

Let me tell you, Benzie County has a lot to be proud of and not least of which are these kids.  The Benzie Dems have been really rockin' and working hard and there is much to show for it.  They are playing a major role in helping to turn the north blue.

As to McManus and her shameful reaction to this, well that's the way Team Bush would react, no?  Just another cowardly neo-con.

Julie

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

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by: JNelson @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 10:42:35 AM UTC

Great Picture (0.00 / 0)

Those kids earned their $125

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by: JordanLFW @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 10:54:36 AM UTC

These kids are a great example of democracy in action (0.00 / 0)

Michelle McManus?  Not so much.

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by: SharonRB @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 16:56:21 PM UTC

Democracy in Action? (1.00 / 5)

Democracy in action is a citizen who fully understands the gravity of a cause they believe strongly in and speaks our for or against that cause.

I wasn't there (but I'm guessing neither were any of you) but my guess is that's not what happened here.

My guess is what happened is that these kids were brain-washed by a disgustingly one-sided explanation of the budget debate and were guilted into becoming political pawns for the increasingly desperate "raise taxes at all cost!" campaign that's being led by the governor.

The fact that the people on this site can fools yourselves into thinking that these children (at the tender age of 10 and 11) can fully grasp the complicated concepts that surround the budget debate in Lansing makes me believe that those on the left are more dim-witted than even I had thought.

Let me be clear, I'm not defending Sen. McManus, asking these kids to leave (if that is indeed what took place) is over the line.  So is it too when the Granholm administration tells Republican activits they cannot attend a press conference in a public facility.  So is it too when House Democrats deny entry to their press conferences in the Capitol Building to Republican activits, but those discussions are for a different time an place.

My point is, USING 10 and 11 year-old children to make a political point that Democrats have obviously not been able to work up the gusto to make themselves is...well, "classy".

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by: Republican Yankee @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 18:28:34 PM UTC

Yeah, kids should be seen and not heard (0.00 / 0)

Been around any 10-11 year old kids lately?  They are more than capable of understanding what is going on in regard to the school funding.  The kids are always the first to be thrown under the proverbial bus for one reason and one reason only:  THEY CAN'T VOTE.  Kids are a lot smarter than you seem willing to give them credit for.

Oh and Republicans are the masters of exploiting any and all things imaginable when it come to winning political points.  This chiding from an admitted Republican is like getting a lecture on chastity from Ted Haggard or a lesson from Dick (aka "Ol' Dead-eye") Cheney on open governement.

Oy.

Julie--Overdosing on irony

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

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by: JNelson @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 19:00:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So the next time I see Republicans (0.00 / 0)

with their kids out protesting Planned Parenthood I can get you on speed dial to comer out and lecture them about being good parents?

If we didn't have Republicans, we wouldn't have any need for the word hypocrite in the dictionary...

PS: Children are not cattle...but judging from what you think about children, I kind of understand where wingnuts come from...a complete and utter lack of any kind of parenting that treats you as an individual thinker.

No wonder Republicans are always looking for a daddy to keep them safe and tell them what to do...

PPS: In case you didn't u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d the original post, there were Republican parents there too...

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by: Nazgul35 @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 19:39:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Do you understand the term "credentials"? (4.00 / 1)

Press conferences are for the press, and real reporters to ask real questions, not use it to make a political point.  That's why they call it a "press conference," not an "activist conference."

I mean, do you think just anyone could show up to a White House press briefing, despite the fact that tax dollars pay the president, his mouthpiece, and also the bills for the White House?  No, you need press credentials.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 15:05:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Only male prostitutes (0.00 / 0)

who espouse the Republican talking points...

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 16:45:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, there is that... (0.00 / 0)

He came to mind when I was commenting, but I decided to skip it because I could foresee attempts to explain why Jeff Gannon doesn't have every bit as much credibility as a reporter from the "liberal" Associated Press.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 16:52:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

this is so sad (4.00 / 1)

These kids were probably pretty excited to meet their state Senator. And from the above email from one of the parent chaperones, it seems that some or most of the parents accompanying the students voted Senator McManus into office (she won with over 54% of the vote in Benzie county back in November -- not to say that she would do as well today).

Though I don't agree with Senator McManus politically, I respect the important position she holds (I think most people do). I am deeply disappointed in her failure to honor her place in our state government -- and in these children's lives.

The students who witnessed her tirade are unlikely ever to forget the way they were treated by her. I know I won't.

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by: claudiajane @ Tue May 08, 2007 at 19:44:02 PM UTC

No, not hypocritical. (4.00 / 1)

Part of being a politician is listening to your constituents.  McManus has failed to do that.

However on here we have a rating system to decide if we think your comment is worth listening to.  We aren't required to like what you say, or allow for the existence of trolls.

Considering you felt like blaming Democrats for the partisan divide in this country, I'll remind you that it wasn't us questioning YOUR patriotism after 9/11.  You guys started this.  And if you don't like that we're winning now, well then that's just tough.  If you don't like that I'm bitter towards conservatives, it's because for years despite all my service to the country that I love, you guys felt like taking it upon yourselves to call me a defeatist and a commie.

You guys are like the bully who says to the kid who started hitting back that we hit too hard.  As my drill sergeant liked to say, "Too bad, so sad."

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by: djtyg @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 05:53:29 AM UTC

Well then now's your chance... (4.00 / 1)

Prove us wrong and allow for a free and open discussion.  Rightmichigan does this, and in edition to having a forum to express my views, I'm able to see what the other side thinks.  I admit that I rarely agree, but I think this type of exchange is the greatest benefit the blogging brings to the political process.  IT GENERATES UNDERSTANDING!!!

It is this lack of understanding from people on my side of the aisle that allows for them to SHAMEFULLY call you un-American or a Communist.  Nobody should take that kind of criticism for expressing an idea.  People should, however, take that kind of criticism for suppressing ideas.  I truly hope that you will re-think your ratings system.  Allowing this type of conversation TRULY is democracy in action, and regardless of your political views, I would hope you would agree.  All I ask is that all of us be able to talk to one another, is that really asking too much?

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by: Republican Yankee @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 14:17:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You lost the debate... (4.00 / 1)

It was called the 2006 election.  It's all well and good that today you're pleading for the "right" to be heard on privately-owned Web sites, but the debate took place, free and clear in the open.  You lost on Iraq, you lost on the environment, you lost on immigration, you lost on ethics and government.  In Michigan, you're losing on the economy.  You've lost on every count, and your response is to whine that you can't be heard on a Web site called Michigan Liberal?

You had your shot, over the last 10 years, and screwed it up in monumental ways.  We understand what people on your "side" are saying, and they aren't saying anything new, only repeating the desire to continue making the monumental blunders that got us into this collosal mess in the first place.  You were proved wrong by hard, cold reality.

The irony here is that today you want to talk across the aisle.  Where was this great Republican desire to understand each other last year?  Where was it in the last Congress, where oversight hearings had to be conducted in the basement and where Democrats were ignored?  Where was this understanding last year when you were told that repealing the Single Business Tax without a replacement would create chaos and cause businesses to wonder if Michigan was a good place to invest.  Where was this understanding when your party mocked environmentalists and chuckled when Jim Inhofe called global warming the greatest hoax ever?  The only reason Republicans, in general, are interested in fair and open debate today is because they were handed their lunches last November, when 10 years of boneheaded governance finally got your lunches handed back to you.

So, welcome to Michigan Liberal, but don't mistake the definition of the word liberal as "overly charitable to notions proven wrong by sad experience."

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 14:33:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My wife used to be a Republican, and I... (4.00 / 1)

...used to occasionally vote for them (mostly for local/state stuff, not Federal).

The modern Republican Party has managed to turn both of us away from you for the rest of our lives.

Do you not understand that habeas corpus, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, equal rights under the law...these are not simply "liberal" ideas but are the VERY FOUNDATION OF OUR F*CKING NATION???

Don't give me this "everything changed on 9/11" crap; as terrible as 9/11 was, we've gone through far worse as a nation without wiping our asses with the Constitution. The phrase "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" isn't just a catchy slogan to some of us.

If you're so gung-ho about what a great job Dubbya is doing and how noble our slaughtering of hundreds of thousands of civilians is (not to mention the decimation of our own forces), why haven't YOU signed up? Are you under 45, able to walk? They'll take you; they've had to lower the bar to minimum levels to get new recruits lately, ya know.

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by: Brainwrap @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 15:20:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No offense (4.00 / 1)

but your first post was complete and utter horse shit.

Hence it was troll rated.

So here we have another "concern troll" coming around to lecture us about freedom of speech.

Good god, how do you morans continue to not swallow your own tongues day after day through sheer stupidity and cognitive dissonance?

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 16:49:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah, I made the mistake of un-troll rating it (0.00 / 0)

I don't make it a policy to troll-rate too often (in fact, I often give 4s to trolls so people don't think I'm shouting at thin air), but I was going to let that one remain hidden because it was so ridiculous ("I wasn't there, but this is what I think might have happened...").  But, then, I erred and gave it a 4, allowing it to resurface.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 16:55:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You can undo it. (0.00 / 0)

Just flip your comment button back to zero or no rating and hit the rate it button.

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by: djtyg @ Thu May 10, 2007 at 00:16:02 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Talk? (4.00 / 1)

You came on here and insulted Democrats and liberals, and now you want to "have a dialogue."  Why don't you just go and punch someone in the mouth and then say "Hey, wanna be my friend?"

Fine then.  Let's talk.  Let's talk about the double standard you're using right now.

You complain that a teacher is "brainwashing kids" despite the fact that you admit that it's a guess and don't have anything to back it up by fact.  That's assuming, and you know what that does.

The issue is easy enough for a 10 year old to understand.  Conservatives want to cut funding for schools instead of being fiscally responsible.  That's why they cut taxes when we have a deficit.  Because they're irresponsible.

Now, onto your double standard.  For years the Republicans have been hiding behind American Soldiers like me as a way to get their propaganda across.  The difference between us and the kids that were in Lansing: We aren't allowed to protest.  Republicans routinely hide behind us, knowing that we can't speak up against them in protest.  This is despite the fact that, not unlike the situation in this diary, they would rather cut taxes then give us the funding we need. 

And yet when I can find an avenue to express myself (such as this one), I'm told by right-wingers that I'm a lousy soldier.  I've even been accused of going over to Iraq just so I could be a "human shield."

But getting back to Lansing, it is the Republicans who are refusing to compromise on this issue, despite the fact that 70% of the people in Michigan support a tax increase (64% want it combined with budget cuts).  If Granholm decided she didn't want to compromise, she's just push for a huge tax increase and nothing else.  But she's combining much needed tax increases witn cuts that are going to hurt (by cutting our prison system and university funding-cuts I would rather not see).

The State Senate should be seeing those kids.  They are more than just a number.  They are the key to Michigan's future, and if they don't get a proper education, you can be damn sure that our economy is going to be flushed down the toilet in the next decade because our kids won't be able to prepare themselves for the jobs of tomorrow.

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by: djtyg @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 15:11:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

DJ--btw, thanks for your service... (4.00 / 2)

These guys still don't seem to grasp the concept:

Questioning our leaders' actions and judgement is patriotic.

Questioning the patriotism of those who question our leaders is fascistic.

Serving our country while opposing its' policies is patriotic.

Rooting for us to butcher those who haven't attacked us while refusing to put your own neck on the line when you're capable of doing so is cowardice.

Coughing up some green to make sure that our kids are properly educated is patriotic.

Clutching onto every dime while our kids get second-rate educations is greedy and short-sighted.

djtyg is patriotic.

Republican Yankee is...well, that remains to be seen.

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by: Brainwrap @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 15:42:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Seems the talking points have been issued (0.00 / 0)

Our friend the Republican poster is taking the same approach as McManus, the old "think of the children!" routine.  Here is her e-mail response to a constituent in regard to this story:

Friends,

I am writing today to clear up some apparent misconceptions about an incident that took place last week
when students from Crystal Lake Elementary in Benzonia visited the Capitol.

It came to my attention from a concerned parent that the fourth graders on the trip were being used as
props in a political demonstration without the knowledge or consent of their parents. As the mother of a
nine-year-old, I was appalled. Regardless of your political affiliation, using children to promote your
political agenda is simply unacceptable.

I have heard it stated that I contacted the Capitol Tour Desk to ask that these students be banned from
future visits to the Capitol. Not only is this accusation completely false, but it is utterly ridiculous as well.
The Capitol is a public building that belongs to the people of Michigan. No school has ever been banned
from visiting here.

As I see it, the children have been victimized enough, and I would not punish them further for the
inappropriate actions of some of their adult chaperones. In fact, I hope these children will return to the
Capitol in the near future so they can enjoy this beautiful and historic building without being used as
pawns by well-meaning, but misdirected, adults.

As a legislator, it is my job to listen to people and to hear their complaints. While I understand the
frustrations many are feeling with the budget process, actions like these are not a constructive way to
address our state's problems. The line of communication between schools and elected officials needs to
remain open and productive.

I hope this message serves to clear up any misconceptions about Thursday's events. As you know, my
door is always open, and I welcome your feedback and questions. Please do not hesitate to contact me
regarding this or any issue related to state government, and please feel free to share this message with
anyone you encounter with questions about Thursday's incident.

Sincerely,
Michelle A. McManus
State Senator
35th District

Do we know the original source for the story that the kids were barred from the Capitol?

Julie

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

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by: JNelson @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 15:37:38 PM UTC

props and victims (4.00 / 3)

2 comments on some powerful language in Sen. McManus' note. I actually do think the children were probably used as props that day -- but not necessarily by their chaperones (I admit I wasn't there).

As anyone who has visited her website knows, Senator McManus regularly gets her photo taken with children for political reasons, and I have no doubt a cute photo of the Crystal Lake Elementary visit would have been posted as evidence that the Senator cares about children.

The prop issue aside, doesn't cutting public education funds hurt our kids? I think one reason this incident hit a nerve is that the Senator was reminded of the tangible consequences of her actions as a legislator. I think she probably does care about kids on some level, and is well-meaning. But her anger and energies on this matter have been severely misdirected.

If the Senator really cared about kids, wouldn't she use her power and influence to take a stand for children in Lansing? The children of Crystal Lake Elementary were victims of the budget crisis long before they and their chaperones ever darkened Senator McManus' door.

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by: claudiajane @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 20:14:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Absolutely, no doubt about it (4.00 / 1)

Notice how she made it about the kids being used as "props", nevermind the whole issue behind what was being highlighted/protested.

Typical Republican tactic of trying to take the focus off of their own horrid behavior by the art of projection.  Puh-thetic!

Julie

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

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by: JNelson @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 21:26:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you. (4.00 / 1)

I am new at the whole blogging thing, so I apologize for any mistreatment that has taken place toward all of you in the past (obviously there are some strong feelings there).  I appreciate my posts being put back up.

I will ask again that you please not automatically handcuff myself or any other Republican to the president and his policies (I'm guilty of doing this to you guys with the governor, I'll work on that).  I would hope that all of us could agree that adding civility and strong ethical characters in our elected representatives is the path forward for our country regardless of what political party is in power.

That is what blogging has done, and that is why I have recently been drawn to it.  It was blogs that revealed the Mark Foley scandal and blogs that revealed the William Jefferson scandal.  The blogs are keeping the process more honest and (hopefully) more civil, which benefits us all as Americans.

I hope that in the future I will be able to have discussions with many of you on this site and others regarding the important issues that face our state and country.

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by: Republican Yankee @ Wed May 09, 2007 at 18:17:18 PM UTC

Yeah, now that Bush is at 28%... (0.00 / 0)

You don't want to be handcuffed to him and his policies.  You voted for him, and he's the leader of your party!  Until the day comes that you Republicans kick his ass out of office, that shackle is going to hung around your neck until Bush has long been forgotten, and believe me, that's going to be a very long time!

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by: djtyg @ Thu May 10, 2007 at 00:21:18 AM UTC