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Dean, DNC deck Florida for early primary

by: David Boyle

Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 15:09:31 PM EDT


(Read today's Free Press story too. Will this dissuade the large group of influential Michigan Democrats urging a January 15th primary? - promoted by lpackard)

  See, e.g., Daily Kos, Breaking: DNC Committee votes to strip Florida of all 2008 Delegates by mattinla,

  "The Rules and Bylaws Committee voted to strip Florida of all its delegates to the 2008 democratic National Convention, acording to The Politico. http://www.politico.... ...

Some background may be found here, in a good article from this morning's Washington Post.  http://www.washingto...

Update 1:  It appears that the vote to impose sanctions was nearly unanimous; only one clear dissenting (voice) vote was heard.  The move here is clearly a shot across the bow of Michigan, which is considering legislation to set a January 15 primary that would force New Hampshire up to January 8.  I'm somewhat surprised by the near unanimity here, which is a clear sign of strength for Chairman Dean, who has been a vocal critic of states jumping the gun. ..."

  Well.
  Let's see whether Granholm and others get the message or not. . .
David Boyle :: Dean, DNC deck Florida for early primary
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Dean, DNC deck Florida for early primary | 22 comments
Don't mess with the Dems (4.00 / 1)
  So to speak.
It's just the Bylaws Committee (4.00 / 1)
Of course they're going to rec that the full DNC "take away Florida's birthday."  What can they say "break our rules and we'll do nothing."  But politics is politics and the party is about politics.  A solution will be made.

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast
[ Parent ]
Little d democratic processes matter (4.00 / 1)
We've already seen how very expensive it is to both democratic and Democratic people when social contracts like rules and laws are ignored.  Joe Lieberman's disregard for the will of the Democratic Party of Connecticut, for example, has proven a detriment to ending a war, let alone to the ability of our party to police its own.

The entirety of the DNC committee discussed and voted on this matter, followed by-laws well established -- and both little d and Big D democratic people should recognize and adhere to the outcome of their decision-making process.

I will be terribly disappointed if the MDP does not adhere to DNC by-laws and rules; it only makes it easier for candidates and incumbents within our ranks to disregard our governing rules and by-laws if we do not enforce them.

Indeed (0.00 / 0)
  Bad manners to overly ignore the DNC, maybe...
[ Parent ]
Democracy? (4.00 / 1)
What about the little 'd' democracy that flourishes when there's a primary instead of a caucus? I think that takes precedence over the little 'd' democracy that goes on with Dean and the DNC's decision-making.
[ Parent ]
what are you talking about? (4.00 / 1)
Dean and the DNC have nothing to do with the caucus/primary debate here in Michigan. Their only concern is when we hold it...not how.
[ Parent ]
More than meets the eye (4.00 / 1)
I don't know if it's fair to say it's their "only" concern. Look, there's the belief that if Michigan doesn't hold an early primary, then it might as well have a later caucus. I don't hear too many people advocating in earnest for a late primary, do you?

I'm sure Dean and the DNC are aware of the ramifications of primary vs. caucus and who the process favors. Why else would they be so adamant about Florida and Michigan not jumping up? To say the DNC has nothing to do with states' processes is just naive.

[ Parent ]
I don't think I am the one being niave (4.00 / 1)
The reason that the Michigan Dems would be forced to hold a caucus would be if they went outside the official primary date.

Right now, the DNC would allow Michigan to hold its primary at any time after Feb. 5th...hardly late.

I also can't be sure if you do or do not understand that Michigan isn't pushing for an Iowa style caucus.

Again, the DNC's concerns are:

1) That this doesn't get out of control nation-wide. Forcing Iowa and NH into 2007.

2) That the original plan preserve the more diverse nature of traditional Democratic voters with the inclusion of Nevada and South Carolina.

There are too many folks who see conspiracies like the grow on trees.

[ Parent ]
Actually (4.00 / 1)
I also can't be sure if you do or do not understand that Michigan isn't pushing for an Iowa style caucus.

Of course there is a push by some for a caucus. I certainly wouldn't call it a "conspiracy," but there is a growing camp out there who feel that a caucus would both  A.) Be the fiscally proper thing to do, by saving the taxpayers from the expense of a primary and (more subversively) B.) Take away the advantage that Clinton might have with the low-information voters who would vote in a traditional primary.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each route, but don't think the Clinton factor isn't at the very core of this.

Personally, I'd like to see a nice, traditional primary...in which Clinton loses badly. One can dream, right? 

Again, it's not a conspiracy -- it's politics.


[ Parent ]
Again (4.00 / 1)
You seem to think that the caucus would be Iowa style, and it would not be.

The use of the word "caucus" in Michigan means simply a primary held by the state party.

Now if you are saying that a primary run by the party would have lower turnout and fewer underinformed/activist voters would show up...you are probably right.

But what is being proposed is a primary held by the party, not a group gathering in someone's home where everyone has to publicly declare their choice of candidate.

[ Parent ]
I'm sorry (4.00 / 2)

Sorry if I wasn't clear about this, but I understand completely that it would not be an Iowa-style caucus (that would be a complete travesty, as opposed to a basic travesty). I maintain, however, that anything short of a real, publicly funded primary is doing a disservice to voters. The old-school cigar-filled conventions and party primaries are NOT examples of little 'd' democracy.

What I don't get is when some people on our side say they're against an early primary simply because Republicans are for it. Yeah, don't bother to look at the issue and weigh the pros and cons ... better to think in black-and-white terms, right?

Oh well. This really is a fascinating issue. I think it shows how impatient we all are to get 43 the hell out of dodge. 


[ Parent ]
Who said anybody couldn't have a primary or caucus? (4.00 / 1)
As members of the DNC, Florida's delegation already voted last year and agreed to specific terms about when states would have their primaries or caucuses.  Florida's Dems have already been exercising their little d democratic rights.

If they don't want to abide by big D Democratic rules upon which they have already voted, are they really saying they aren't members of the same party?

Or are they saying that little d democratic processes can be ignored when convenient?

And what exactly does this have to do with Dean?  is this not the DNC and all the delegates of that body that have negotiated and voted upon the by-laws by which they operate?  What's the agenda here, Dean-bashing?

Believe me, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the other agenda...

[ Parent ]
Don't forget (4.00 / 1)
this is a Republican controlled legislature and state that pushed for this...

Just like it was the Republican senate here who is trying to push our date up.

Hmmm...

And so many Democratic willing to jump on board.

[ Parent ]
I agree, Rayne (4.00 / 1)
I think the DNC has spoken loud and clear today that they will follow through on withholding delegates from the convention.  If we really want a joint primary with the Republicans, maybe we should do it on February 5, along with all of the other states holding theirs on that day.  It will be a crowded field that day, but it would be better, in my opinion, than waiting until the 9th and having a caucus.  At least on the 5th, we can speak with the rest of the country.

I don't think it's worth the risk to go earlier than February 5 if the DNC is going to follow through like it sounds like they have.

Personally, though, I think the entire system needs revamping.  Everything is happening way too early this year and a lot of people are going to have voter's remorse between February and the convention.  Something is bound to happen to make a lot of people regret their votes.

[ Parent ]
As I wrote at DK (4.00 / 2)
This is huff and bluster: no nominee is going to blow off powerful Democrats from key GE states like Florida and Michigan.  Maybe we'll/they'll get worse hotel rooms, but I just don't believe this'll do more than keep the party crashers to us and Florida.



West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

Don't throw your lot in with Florida (4.00 / 2)
Some of the motivation for moving up the primaries there is to sabotage the inclusion of more minorities and union voters.

Two groups that Florida elites have been trying to disenfranchise for decades.

Just hold the damn primary in February.

[ Parent ]
The hell with February.... (4.00 / 4)
If you wait untill then you might as well not even have one, it will be decided in January. We should all hold them on the same date, a National Primary. I'm sick and tired of Iowa and New Hampshire picking our candidates.

The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization.

 - Ralph Waldo Emerson
[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 3)
I think Florida moving up is greedy, given the attention they always get in the GE.

But, facts are facts.

I am for Michigan breaking into a Top 5 or 6.

I prefer a Party caucus, Party voters should determine our nominee not Republicans or independents.  If you want to vote, come and proclaim yourself a Democrat (it feels good, trust me).

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

[ Parent ]
But wouldn't this also be accomplished with a closed (4.00 / 1)
primary the same day as the Republicans?  If you can only get one or the other ballot, you won't get crossover voters like you might if the two primaries were held on different days.  We'd get more people taking part than we would with a caucus and get a truer picture of who the overall electorate wants.

I have nothing against a primary -- I just don't think we should tempt fate and do it earlier than February 5.

[ Parent ]
Ah fate (0.00 / 0)
  Good not to tempt, 'tis true...
[ Parent ]
I believe this might require (4.00 / 1)
a constitutional amendment.
[ Parent ]
Pardon my ignorance, but... (4.00 / 2)
While I agree that neither Florida (nor Michigan, nor any other state) should hold their primaries/caucuses so early, it's my understanding that the Florida date change was passed by the GOP-held state legislature, and signed into law by the Republican Governor.

So, my question is, exactly how is the Florida Democratic Party supposed to change the date to something later at this point even if they wanted to? Wouldn't they have to have another vote and gain enough GOP support to reverse the previous measure? Or am I missing something?

Note: I realize this has probably been addressed already in one of the various news stories on the subject, but I'm feeling lazy today--if anyone could fill me in I'd appreciate it.

Dean, DNC deck Florida for early primary | 22 comments

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