So What Happens if RMGN Makes the Ballot?

Another Reason (4.00 / 1)

RMGN sets a bad precedent. Have an elected official you can't beat at the ballot box? Bundle together a bunch of changes that sound good as sound bites and rewrite the constitution to eliminate their position.

Just imagine Leon Drolet writing a "RMGN II" and try to tell me with a straight face that the RMGN is still a good idea.

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by: boehmianrhapsody @ Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:08:40 AM CDT

Toss Up State; Worse Than That (0.00 / 0)

Michigan may decide president. That's what I heard on Good Morning America. If McCain can take Michigan, he stands a good chance of winning the electoral vote. So are we going to be the state that everyone hates for awhile because we got ourselves another mini-Bush, pro-oil man in the White House for yet another 4 years?

Looks like all of the VP's trips to Cheneyland (Grand Rapids) paid off. I didn't think DeVos took his loss lightly either. Between another Republican president, our MI senate, and Granholm being blamed for everything, Michigan looks to a future of no-unions, low paying, no health insurance/pension manufacturing jobs, more polluting business, diminished freshwater supply, and the possibility of oil rigs in the Great Lakes. That will really attract people to Michigan. It'll be a free-for-all for big business here though. We'll be the serfs, plenty of serfs.

As for serfs, there seems to be a national consensus about Michigan's citizenry already. I saw an example of it on a popular TV series. A young girl didn't want to move to Michigan with her father, and said among other things like the crime rate that, "It doesn't have a middle class." Nice thing to be known for hey? This will really attract people to Michigan.  

The latest Detroit News Poll seems to support a diminished middle class here too. An awful lot of people weren't affected by the economy, and a majority was in the middle as far as suffering. Who are these people?

Those in power here like to keep us confused as they make their insidious moves for more control. We had better watch what we wish for and tune into all the little nuances of the far right.

Confusion leads to bad decisions for Michigan that we later regret. It looks like too many people in Michigan don't regret George W enough.

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by: riar @ Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:34:41 AM CDT

Do you realize that there isn't a single Republican (4.00 / 4)

on the Grand Rapids City Commission?

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

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by: philgoblue @ Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:38:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe Not (0.00 / 0)

All I said was Cheney consistently stops in Grand Rapids, not Detroit, and Dick DeVos lives in Grand Rapids. Watch where McCain goes a lot. Grand Rapids looks like a Republican fundraising hotspot to me despite the fact that it tips more Democrat right now. Before 2005 it was 50-51% and has gone up since.

What's up with the Republican visits to Grand Rapids? I'm curious. A lot of people would like to know what is the Republican attraction there? DeVos, funding from Blackwater, what?

Anyway, the fact that the entire Grand Rapids City Commission is sans a Republican reflects well on the Democratic base there despite all the Repug Bwig visits.        

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by: riar @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 13:54:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

DeVos lives in East Grand Rapids (0.00 / 0)

Its like Grosse Ponite is to Detroit, although GR and Detroit are not apples to apples.

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by: IgnatiusDonnelly @ Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 16:07:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sinking ship (0.00 / 0)

Let's take the other view for a second.  What if RMGN does not make the ballot?  What's our outlook for the next ten years?

The Supreme Court continues to be dominated by Engler-appointed ideologues with an agenda.  Basic protections of law in the area of torts, auto insurance and consumer protection will continue to be stripped away.  As a bonus, they get to re-draw the district lines in 2010 to ensure that Democratic control of the House is over by 2012.

Why will the Supremes get to draw the lines?  Because there is next to zero chance that the Dems will find themselves in control of the House, Senate and Governor's mansion in 2010.  Even if the Dems manage to hang onto the House and Governor (and with the huge number of marginal Dem seats being term-limted in 2010, that is hardly a sure thing), odds of winning back the Senate in 2010 are awful.  Mark Schauer will likely defeat Walberg and go to Congress (hooray!).  But Mike Nofs will then likely make the Schauer Senate seat turn Republican (boo!).  Assuming that happens, the Senate dems would have to pick up four seats in 2010 while holding on to marginal open seats like Barcia and Prusi to recapture control.  That's a tall order.

So, in essence, RMGN is the ONLY hope the Dems have of even being relevant in Michigan from 2010-2020.  Anyone who says this is a power grab is not telling the whole truth.  The power grab really happened when four unqualified and unprincipled individuals politicized the Michigan Supreme Court.  RMGN is just a desperate attempt to level the playing field.

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by: tnt @ Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 21:50:09 PM CDT

Desparate Attempts Rarely Win (0.00 / 0)

Wouldn't this same energy be better spent in organizing to win in November?

As it is, the best challenger to Justice Taylor has dropped out, with none evidently on the horizon.  

Your post, does however point to the more substantive problem: the term limits that create a permanent instability in the Legislature and so prevents the formation of effective working relationships.  There are proposals on both sides of the aisle to pick up that part of the problem.  Indeed, without reform of term limits, RMGN's recipe of evenly divided legislature will likely lead to more gridlock, with th result that even more power moves to the Executive branch.  

Lastly as to redistricting.  Two things are likely to happen: Michigan will lose a Congressional seat; and the legislature will shift its make-up westward to follow population redistribution.  And you do understand that under RMGN we end up with the rather complicated and convoluted districts one usually associates with the word "Gerrymander?"

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by: Harris @ Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 21:58:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is RMGN's best argument (0.00 / 0)

And the argument gives me a great deal of pause.  However, at the end of the day, we are attempting to dramatically change the rules of the game for the specific reason that we do not think that our views will win out democratically.  In other words, we think that the voters will choose our opponents' positions, and therefore, we need to take steps now to disenfranchise the voters.

Why are we in this position?  One possibility is that our Democratic Party seems to be little more than the "Republican Party that doesn't want guilt trips about sex".  That's not much of a choice for the poor and working class.  Maybe, just maybe, when the economic policies of the Clintons look a heck of a lot like the economic policies of Bush I, regular people don't see much of a choice.

If this is so, then maybe the solution to our 2010 problem is to run, and elect, actual democrats; not just Republicans who know how to bemoan the faux liberal issue of the month, while consuming their overpriced latte from an exploitive corporation.  Maybe.    

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by: IgnatiusDonnelly @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:15:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Barry County "Types" (0.00 / 0)

I resent the inference in the comment "Barry County types" used in this blog.  Members of our Barry County group boasts two PhD's, two with Master of Science Degrees, two with Bachelor's degrees, one with an Associate's and the last with a PhD in life experience.  We are and have been political activists across many partisan and non-partisan local, state, and national issues over the years. We are beyond neophytes, being deeply involved, experienced activists.  Unlike most in the blogosphere who so easily dismiss our efforts, we've put our money and time where our mouths are.

This blogger Harris, stoops to new lows and obviously misses the fact that the non-partisan RMGN proposal levels the playing field, making all races competitive.  Once imposed, does not benefit one party over the other.  The proposal also "forces" a degree of ethics into our state government. The fact that ethics has to be forced down the throats of our elected officials is a sad testimony as to the state of affairs.

The fact that both the liberal and conservative bloggers attack the suspected authors without substantive challenge to the core issues behind the proposal is typical of status quo defenders.  And, to summarily dismiss populist arguments is nothing more than arrogance.

Let us talk about issues and the real consequence of our proposal if passed and if failed.  Bring genuine debate to the table sans name calling, and we can move real reform forward.  

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by: RMGN @ Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 21:17:15 PM CDT

Substantive Challenge? (0.00 / 0)

Really, you should go out and read more.  

But ok, let's say (hypothetically speaking) that I have not offered a substantive challenge, the consequence in November still seems to be pretty direct: danger of losing a national election because you unintentionally motivate the McCain base; danger of tapping resources needed for other campaigns -- this I think the weakest of my arguments, btw; and the danger of a corrupted Democratic brand, imperiling the Governor's office.  As some one who cares about actually winning elections, I find these to be pretty substantive dangers in themselves.  

Face it, you and Mark Gaffney have devised a Rube Goldberg electoral contraption that shows every inclination of blowing up in your face.  

As to Barry County types -- if you don't recognize the populist strain in your county politics -- sheesh, well that alone would explain things.  So don't like Barry?  Substitute  Ionia? Eaton?  same folks live there, too.  This is past dumb.

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by: Harris @ Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 21:49:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Barry County (4.00 / 1)

Barry County was the only county in Michigan to vote "no" on the repeal of Prohibition in April 1933.

What makes Barry County unique is not really populism, but its ethnic make-up: it is surely the most White Anglo-Saxon Protestant (English or "New England Yankee" ancestry) county in the state.  Germans, Polish, and Dutch predominate in most other counties.

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by: Kestenbaum @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 00:13:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That makes sense (4.00 / 1)

Just over the border from Vermontville -- one of my favorite Michigan villages.

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by: Harris @ Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 12:53:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]