Stem Cell Ballot Initative: A Prop 2 that actually works for MI

here here sister (4.00 / 3)

West Michigan Rising: The Progressive Blog for Our (future) Left Coast

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by: philgoblue @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:37:07 PM CDT

Research on live embryos (4.00 / 1)

I have heard the Proposal 2 would allow for experimentation on live human embryos.  If so, I will be voting "no".  I find it ethically unacceptable and against my views of human rights to experiment on a living human being regardless of whether it is an embryo, fetus, infant, child or adult without any direct benefit to that particular human being.  I understand the medical breakthroughs that can result from embryonic stem cell research and the arguments that some of these embryos are by-products of in-vitro fertilization, but an "ends justify the means" agrument is what has led societies to support attrocities such as Imperial Japan's infamous Unit 731.  At the very least, I would want to see stipulations included in the law the prevent embryos from being created and subsequently killed for the purpose of this research, a ban on the buying or selling of embryos for research and a ban on using embryos for genetic cloning or genetic modification (GMO) experiments.

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by: northernlight @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 14:52:03 PM CDT

Is it okay to throw out embryos instead? (4.00 / 5)

Just wondering where you stand on that.

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by: lapojoynt @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:27:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ethics (4.00 / 1)

I have issues about discarding embryos left over from assisted reproductive technologies, especially when there are so many unwanted children in this world in need of loving parents.  I appreciate the many people who selflessly choose to by-pass IVF and instead adopt a child, particularly those from developing countries.

But even with IVF, human life is developed for pro-creative purposes.  Each of those embryos is created with the intention of producing a child even if its know that not all of them are going to be used.  There is a huge ethical difference between IVF and using living human embryos for lethal experimentation.  To say, "there were going to get thrown out anyway, we might as well use them" is a way of sidestepping the issues of medical ethics and dignity of human life.

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by: northernlight @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:45:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

read it for yourself (4.00 / 5)

The Cure Michigan website has the official ballot language:

http://curemichigan.com/ballot...

I think most of your stipulations are met by the proposal.  I cannot speak with regards to the "living" aspect, only that the Michigan law will be subject to existing federal laws as well.

Did you exchange a walk-on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
The PhiKapBlog

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by: phikapbob @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:28:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What the proposal says... (4.00 / 5)

I'm no medical expert, but I do know that with the status quo, when parents using fertility clinics opt not to use their embryos, they are just thrown away.

With the specific language of the proposal, with parents consent, the embryos that would have been discarded would be the ones used for research. The proposal specifically prohibits harvesting of embryos for the sole purpose of research.  

I want to change the world, not help people adjust to it. - Millie Jeffrey, MI - National Women's labor and Democratic activist, Presidential Medal of Freedom Recipient

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by: LiberalLucy @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:33:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks, Lucy. (4.00 / 2)

Thanks, Lucy.  The link you provided resolves all my secondary concerns.  My primary concern is all that remains.  Because this isn't a religious issue for me, I'm not coming at it from a black and white perspective or as part of the oft-described culture wars.  For me, it's an issue of medical ethics and human rights.  It's the issue of allowing lethal experimentation on living human embryos versus the potential of the technology to alleviate human suffering.  A number of questions come to mind such as how many embryos will need to be killed for medical research and how much progress this technology has achieved in states where it is already legal.  I'll do my homework before I vote and keep an open and objective mind.

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by: northernlight @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:59:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Um... (0.00 / 0)

You should probably stop spending so much time listening to the Flat Earth Society.

Please read the ballot language next time before sharing your opinions and analysis. Uninformed opining is the number one cause of mass misinformation.

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by: Thomas Morgan @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 15:59:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Discussing forum (0.00 / 0)

Michigan Liberal is a discussion forum, not a propaganda machine.  Many of us are open to learning from each other and sharing different points of view.  If that bothers you to the point where you feel you need to become nasty to other bloggers, perhaps you don't belong here.

I didn't post my viewpoint trolling for an argument.  I posted it to hear a diversity of views about a controversial ballot proposal expressed in a civil, open, friendly and progressive atmosphere.

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by: northernlight @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:49:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Repeating RTL talking points (0.00 / 0)

hardly contributed to a progressive atmosphere.

I'm not being nasty to you, Northernlight, but rather your misguided analysis of the ballot proposal.

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by: Thomas Morgan @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 08:14:55 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

To answer your questions, Northernlight... (4.00 / 3)

"At the very least, I would want to see stipulations included in the law the prevent embryos from being created and subsequently killed for the purpose of this research, a ban on the buying or selling of embryos for research and a ban on using embryos for genetic cloning or genetic modification (GMO) experiments."

The constitutional language would only allow research on embryos left over from fertility treatments that are no longer needed for treatment or are usable for that treatement, and would otherwise discarded.  It would not allow embryos to be created specifically for research.  Contrary to the Catholic Conference's messaging on it, the ballot language would not allow for the creation of embryos through Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer (SCNT), which is also referred to as therapeutic cloning.  Lastly, there is a prohibition in the ballot language on selling embryos for the purposes of research.  

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by: robertburns3 @ Mon Sep 22, 2008 at 16:17:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The constitutional Law (0.00 / 0)

Ok, the proposal doesn't allow for cloning(SCNT), however there are opponents of the proposal who claim it will strengthen the ban. It does not! It only states that what ever laws exist will apply. Current laws ban cloning but there are future research needs and legislative actions working to change that.

Currently, Michigan has only 2 restrictions for any type of stem cell research. You cannot experiment on any living embryo, fetus or neonate in such a matter as to harm or kill it. The second restriction bans cloning(SCNT).(Simplified from legal text.)

Furthermore, if ethics or potential abuse of ethics is a concern on this proposal, consider this. Paragraph (d) of proposal says that all research must be conducted in accordance with state and local laws unless in prevents, restricts, obstructs or discourages any stem cell research and/or creates any disincentives for any person to engage in research.  

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by: EmbryosLiveOn @ Tue Sep 23, 2008 at 10:54:58 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Research on live embryos (0.00 / 0)

It's a wonderful country we live in. It does occasionally give me cause to stop and appreciate the fact that we have the right to vote, either way, on the issues that affect/effect us.  It does, however, amaze me that the rights of a discarded embryo can be given equal consideration to those of a loved one slowly dying as a result of... insert your own story here.

I hope for the continued good health of those willing to let the opportunity of pursuing stem cell research pass us by, their parents, siblings, spouses and children as well.

As a devout proponent of human rights myself, I urge us all to look for the humanity in this opportunity rather than cower in fear of it's possible humanitarian failings.

I have read the drafted language in Proposal 2, I'm sure this will come as no surprise; I will be voting yes.

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by: MIsupportsMI @ Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 11:45:36 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Proposal 2 Thoughts (2.00 / 2)

Stem Cell Research, is already Legal. U-M has one of the largest stem cell facilities in our nation

Proposal 2 would create a sub-race of Human Beings to serve at the pleasure and convenience of another Human Race. Haven't we already been there in History???

Michigan currently has a law prohibiting human embryo research, this law was led by a democratic legislature and signed by Gov. William Milliken to declare that Human Embryos would not be reduced to Lab Rats.

Embryonic Research is dead end science. Even the Pioneer of Stem Cell research James Thompson is abandoning Embryonic Stem Cell Research: http://www.jsonline.com/story/...

Left over Embryos from fertilization clinics do not have to be thrown out, it's called Embryo Adoption: http://www.bethany.org/A55798/...

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by: AcmePete @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:13:42 AM CDT

A "4" (0.00 / 0)

Not because I agree with everything you write here, but because I don't think we should be censoring minority opinion and opinions on the other side of this issue that were expressed as um, "colorfully", were not troll rated.

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by: northernlight @ Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 12:02:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]