Dingell town hall on health care may disrupted by rightwing thugs

Re: Right Wing Thugs? (0.50 / 2)

Some Obama hypocrisy for you before we get to a few of the bills

Obama claimed in a November 2004 interview with left wing radio talk show host Randi Rhodes that budgets and legislation such as the Patriot Act were rushed through without members of Congress having any idea what was in the bills.

He actually complained that Congressional members didn't have time to read, deliberate or debate any of the legislation because they were supposedly "intimidated by the Bush administration."

What's odd about his comments is he wasn't even in Congress at the time. He was sworn in as a U.S. Senator January 4, 2005 and prior to that he had been an Illinois state legislator from 1997-2004. I guess he has been yapping about stuff he knows nothing about for quite some time now hasn't he?

The bills are:

$787 Obama Spendulus Bill (which was actually $1.2 trillion)

The $3.6 trillion budget

$60 billion to GM and Chrysler

$3 billion and counting for Cash for Clunkers which 4 out of 5 rebates went for foreign cars

Bush spent just over a trillion dollars in 8 years and that was with 2 wars, on the other hand, Obama has already out spent all presidents in the history of this country, combined and is thirsty for more of our money.

Obama is looking at $11 trillion in spending in 7 months.

Obama promised "transparency" and a completely open government.  He also promised he would "post any bill that came before him on the internet five days prior to signing it" so we could get a look at what was in the bill.  He has not kept this promise.

He promised "that there is no room for lobbyists in my cabinet"
He has broken this promise.

He tells us we can"keep your present insurance carrier if you like" but when reading the bill on several pages it spells out the demise of private insurance companies (pp. 42, 72, 84, 124, 145, 203 and 265)
Yet another promise to soon be broken.

Did you read the bill? Did you notice that on page 59 it states: "The federal government will have direct real-time access to your individual bank accounts for electronic transfers?"

Are you going to trust some bureaucrat to ration your health care, decide when you've lived a fruitful life a make the decision for you to move on with end of life counseling? (Page 429)

.. to deduct at will funds from your bank account for health care payments you may or may not owe or "taxes" a government bureaucrat deems you owe?

As for your comment on the Scandinavian health care system, they have been trying for years to find a way to return it to the free market because they have found the only way to control costs is to incite competition. (Google It)

The US system would work just fine with a few tweaks and if we can loosen the death grip our government has on it.

I was not a Bush supporter and I am not an Obama supporter.  What I want is a truthful federal government that works for me, that protects us from enemies foreign and domestic, provides a sound infrastructure and allows us the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, after all, that is all the constitution gives them the power to do, unless we let them roll over us.

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by: pjsolarz @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 12:54:46 PM CDT

You betcha (4.00 / 2)

Wow, you listen to Randi Rhodes? I haven't listed to her in a long time. I can't get her show anywhere in southeast Michigan or mid-Michigan. This has been something that has been advocated for 50 years. That's not enough time for you?

You forgot to mention that the clunkers program was meant to stimulate sluggish auto sales and spur people to buy more fuel-efficient cars, and considering that more than 80 percent of the vehicles turned in were trucks and sport-utility vehicles, it has been a success. The top-selling new car is the Ford Focus. It is true that the next three best selling cars are foreign models manufactured in the U.S. by U.S. workers. Asia has a history of making small, fuel efficient cars, but we are catching up fast. I don't like the fact that people are buying foreign cars either, and I would never buy one. I guarantee if you tried to restrict it you would be claming the government is telling you what to buy.

Bush started with a budget surplus, and most of the then record deficit was spent in a useless war in Iraq. The difference is President Obama is investing the money in the U.S., not Iraq.

Still, I fail to see what this has to do with health care, or even allowing constituents to hear their elected officials speak instead of rightwing thugs disrupting a meeting.

He tells us we can keep our present insurance carrier because it's true.  I'm not sure what rightwing web site you got those talking points from, but the fact is this just creates real competition, for a change. There is no demise of private insurance companies. I wish that were true, but that's not the case.

Sorry, page 59 simply authorizes electronic transfers of money within the government. In no way does this provision grant the government access to individual bank accounts.

Why is OK to trust some insurance company bureaucrat whose only motive is to make a profit to ration your health care?  There is no rationing of health care in this plan. You can't really be buying into the assisted suicide boogyman? The bill simply provides for the reimbursement of a voluntary session of end-of-life counseling with your physician once every five years. This in no way means the government will make decisions for patients or encourage doctor-assisted suicide. Counseling simply makes patients and their families aware of their options.

No, you google it, it's your claim, and you said "Canadian, Great Brittan, and Scandinavian and other countries." The fact is we have no real competition, and that's why these companies are spending $1.4 million a day in lobbying to protect that monopoly. I stand by original statement about no one chopping at the bit to adopt the U.S. health care system.

To claim the "U.S. system would work just fine with a few tweaks" is ridiculous. It's not the government that has a death grip on health care, it's the for profit insurance providers.

Well it's pretty obvious you're not an Obama supporter, but I'm not buying your Bush line. By the way, when you say "unless we let them roll over us," the fact is we are them and us is them.

Communications Guru The Conservative Media http://liberalmedianot.blogspot.com

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by: kjbas58 @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 14:36:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wow are you stupid... (0.00 / 0)

Obama claimed in a November 2004 interview with left wing radio talk show host Randi Rhodes that budgets and legislation such as the Patriot Act were rushed through without members of Congress having any idea what was in the bills.

He actually complained that Congressional members didn't have time to read, deliberate or debate any of the legislation because they were supposedly "intimidated by the Bush administration."

What's odd about his comments is he wasn't even in Congress at the time. He was sworn in as a U.S. Senator January 4, 2005 and prior to that he had been an Illinois state legislator from 1997-2004. I guess he has been yapping about stuff he knows nothing about for quite some time now hasn't he?

Since when do you have to be in Congress to know about a piece of legislation? It was widely reported at the time that many didn't read the bill before voting on it. Many members do this, since they have so much legislation to deal with, they rely on the members on the committee to give them a heads up, plus, the Republicans had this favorite tactic of not giving the minority party a copy of the legislation until midnight the night before the debate...

$787 Obama Spendulus Bill (which was actually $1.2 trillion)

Yeah...you're not a wingnut.

The stimulus package contained around $400 billion in taxes cuts nimrod...it wasn't pure spending...I'm sure you shouted to the hilltops for Bush's massive tax cut for the rich...

BTW: The Stimulus had the largest tax cut for the largest number of Americans in US history.

Did you read the bill?

Yes...did you? Or are you just using the selected quotes sent to you in some blast email from one of the winger orgs?

I actually invite everyone here to try and find what you are talking about (wanring: pdf) by looking at the actual bill and doing a word search on your "quotes."

For example, what you quote as being on page 59 is in fact no where in the document.

but when reading the bill on several pages it spells out the demise of private insurance companies (pp. 42, 72, 84, 124, 145, 203 and 265)

Perhaps now that I've included the link to the bill you can actually quote the sections that support your claim...without making more of an ass of yourself...

Your bogus "end of life" nonsense is a policy that the Fed has been pushing for over 20 years...that individuals should make out a living will. When I was in the hospital for a procedure, the hospital's religious representative came in and talked me into filling one out...so let's ban churches!!!

Hopefully you go into this meeting better prepared with the facts...but if not, I guess you can always shout people down...

I look forward to your response where you provide links to actual evidence to support your idiocy...

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by: Nazgul35 @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 12:26:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Huh...imagine that! (0.00 / 0)

the wingnut didn't come back and answer the points.

Who could have predicted?

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by: Nazgul35 @ Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 09:43:55 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

We're not hired thugs - we're just really angry (0.00 / 1)

I am offended deeply that Democrats have to lie about who honest Americans are.  I am not paid by anyone to stand up for my rights and oppose this administration.  I am very upset about the waste in Washington.  I too, was not happy with some things that Bush was doing, and am not happy with most of what Obama is doing.  Is the concept of free thought totally unknown to those who closely side with democrat philosophies?  Why is it so hard to believe that a person is against a government controlled healthcare system but in favor of changes that could reduce costs, hold providers more accountable and reduce mal-practice costs?  The problem with healthcare is not that the government isn't involved enough, it is that the individual is too far disconnected from costs.  The people need to be guaranteed a quote in writing by doctors just like they would expect from any other service provider in any other industry.  Currently the consumer can not even find out how much a procedure will cost in advance.  The market can not regulate itself when the consumer does not bear some portion of or at least have an up front awareness of the cost.  Also, many Doctors pay almost as much for malpractice insurance as they get to take home after expenses.  These are the problems with healthcare.  House Bill 3200 (the "healthcare" bill, read it sometime) does nothing to address this.  If you find otherwise, please let me know.  Also.  It is not our job to listen to "Representatives" and Senators.  It is their job to listen to us!  That's why we, or you, hired them.  The citizens rule this land, not the government, and I want it to stay that way.

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by: westsidethinker @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 10:08:54 AM CDT

Hmmm... (0.00 / 0)

Currently the consumer can not even find out how much a procedure will cost in advance.

Yes, you can.  There are entire Web sites devoted to providing you the cost of various medical procedures at various hospitals, and they include quality-control information, as well.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 11:25:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

If the shoe fits (4.00 / 1)

I'm sorry you are offended, but neither I nor the Democrats are lying about anything. No one ever said you were paid to disrupt the townhalls and act like thugs; what I said was it has been documented that well-paid rightwing Republican lobbyists are stirring up people with lies and trying to make it look like a grassroots effort when it is not. They even have scripts to tell you how to disrupt the meeting. Are you denying that?

The fact is if you go and act like the people who were at the townhall meetings highlighted on MSNBC then you are a thug.

Well, I was not happy at all with almost anything Bush did, especially where thousands of servicemen and women died for no valid reason, but I never went to a townhall and tried to intimidate my Congressman, Mike Rogers.

I'll ask you the same question, is the concept of free thought totally unknown to those who closely side with Republican philosophies?  It's you that are being manipulated by highly paid lobbyists for the health care insurers that are spending $1.4 million a day to protect profits like the 155 percent from just a year ago turned in by health insurance giant United Health Group Inc.

Are you serous? Life and death decisions should be based on a written estimate? You're talking about humans here, not a brake job. I'm not buying the malpractice insurance talking point.

I want to listen to my elected official, not you. I didn't vote for you. By the way, the citizens are the government

Communications Guru The Conservative Media http://liberalmedianot.blogspot.com

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by: kjbas58 @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 12:10:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

From what I've seen... (0.00 / 0)

The right wing and other assorted loons were out in force tonight.

It's sad, really.  Sort of like watching the deathblow to civil debate.  These people aren't coming to express their dissatisfaction, they're coming to just kill the discussion, period.  It's especially sad because supporters and people who are genuinely skeptical and as a result have real questions can't show their support or ask their questions at all...they get heckled or shouted down instead.

(Of course, according to Channel 4, "both sides" were shouting each other down when the hecklers appeared to outnumber the pro-reform people by at least 3 or 4 to one...I wonder how that worked unless the reformers had bullhorns...)

My old high school civics teacher would be mortified.

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by: Josh M @ Thu Aug 06, 2009 at 22:33:30 PM CDT