Liveblogging the Gubernatorial Debate

Greetings (0.00 / 0)

...from Michlib Central Control. Are we ready? This is it!

"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never." - Winston S. Churchill

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by: matt @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:04:21 PM CDT

whoa (0.00 / 0)

"I hope you'll pick on someone your own size."

BURN

this debate seems much more professionally conducted / polished than the previous two.

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by: nirmal @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:10:31 PM CDT

She started out swinging - NICE! (0.00 / 0)

Go Jen, Go!

And now he's just stepped on his sword by aligning with himself with Dubya - way to go, Dick!

I want to change the world, not help people adjust to it. - Millie Jeffrey, MI - National Women's labor and Democratic activist, Presidential Medal of Freedom Recipient

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by: LiberalLucy @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:12:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Glasses - so did his eyesight deteriorate since last week? (0.00 / 0)

"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never." - Winston S. Churchill

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by: matt @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:13:56 PM CDT

Easier to hide tears (0.00 / 0)

not to mention it makes his eyes seem less beedy.

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

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by: Cordelia Lear @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:19:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Designer... (0.00 / 0)

... glasses. + 12 IQ pts to 83. Sort of a Benjy Franklin look. Too aggressive for Joe 6-pack... mistake.

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by: Hector Solon @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:25:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

glasses (0.00 / 0)

For some reason, he seems more comfortable in glasses.  He was more "on point" when he had glasses on at the DEC, and he's improved here as well.

That being said, the G is still clobbering him.  Like you said earlier, how much he has "improved" or not is not an objective measure of who comes off better in a debate.

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by: nirmal @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:31:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

midway thoughts (0.00 / 0)

This debate is going much more well overall than the last one... in particular, I liked the emphasis on questions like how much a governor is responsible for a state's economy, etc.

DeVos has improved tremendously (he's coherent and he's sticking to his message really well), but I think Granholm is the best we've seen her in a debate so far.  Her answers are simple and straightforward, and yet still convey the nuances that the answers to these questions require.

They're still at each other, but its not as blatantly negative as the last debate, which I think helps.

And wow, did she get him at the beginning!

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by: nirmal @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:29:26 PM CDT

Bermuda... (4.00 / 1)

...ouch. Where'd that come from? : -). Run a business? Dick doesn't know what businesses he's in. Look for the DeVos family "Christmas Foundations" the Bermuda "shuffle" is an annual event.

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by: Hector Solon @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:35:19 PM CDT

Bermuda: Read it First at Michigan Liberal (0.00 / 0)

See your excellent comment from last week:

The mysterious Dick DeVos' Bermuda company "Apple Hold Co., L.P.” (SEC filing):

This Rule 13e-3 transaction statement on Schedule 13E-3 (this "Schedule  13E-3") is being filed jointly by New AAP Limited, a Bermuda corporation ("New AAP"), Apple Hold Co., L.P., a Bermuda limited partnership ("Apple Hold Co."), Amway Asia Pacific Ltd., a Bermuda corporation ("AAP"), Richard M. DeVos, Jr.

(Break)
On November 15, 1999, Amway Asia Pacific, New AAP and Apple Hold Co. entered into a tender offer and amalgamation agreement providing for the tender offer, the principal shareholders, other than the charitable foundations that tendered their shares pursuant to the tender offer, contributed 46,814,950 shares to Apple Hold Co. As a result of the tender offer, the principal shareholders, as limited partners of Apple Hold Co. indirectly beneficially own 97.4% of the shares. 

(break)
“Apple Hold Co., L.P.” has been a Group Member with the following 10 Group Members:
Amway Asia Pacific Ltd
Amway Corporation
Ap New Co. LLC
Jay Van Andel
Jay Van Andel Trust
New Aap Limited
New Aap Ltd
RDV Corporation
Richard M. DeVos, Jr
Stephen A. Van Andel

Aside: Just how many of DeVos' companies are registered in Bermuda anyway?

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 21:01:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Jen has officially won the Women's Vote! (4.00 / 1)

Wow - I defintitely got chills while she was speaking to the first audience member, a wife, small business owner, mother of 3 - if that wasn't reminiscent of FDR's fireside chats, I don't know what is!

I want to change the world, not help people adjust to it. - Millie Jeffrey, MI - National Women's labor and Democratic activist, Presidential Medal of Freedom Recipient

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by: LiberalLucy @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:38:08 PM CDT

she was very good with the audience members... (4.00 / 1)

On the other hand, DeVos almost seemed like he was shouting at them.

Check out my mediocre blog.

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by: nirmal @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:06:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

his problem (0.00 / 0)

Is that they are....well.....how do yousay....not rich?

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by: go_dem @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:09:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right on! (4.00 / 1)

I was rolling on my couch in laughter at the way he was shouting at the questioners, using them only as launchpads to attack Granholm.

Then Jen toned it down, made it about the questioner, and related to them about their policy concerns.

Watching Dick follow up with "Christine..." ("Oh, yeah!  She has a name!  Say it, and she'll feel real special!") after Granholm was priceless.  I was laughing so hard at his attempt to talk with, and not to, the questioner he blared over to begin with.

-- Signature! --

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by: quaker21 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:26:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Amway Guy's (4.00 / 1)

starting to sound like half a candidate.

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

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by: Cordelia Lear @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:52:39 PM CDT

Vouchers... (4.00 / 1)

... we need to hit this one better. The fact that they (Betsy) and All Children Matter active in other states and their elections. Auto... Dick packages soap... he's NO manufacturer. His buddy Engler is not holding the water for MI mfgers, but for the Bush White House.

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by: Hector Solon @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:52:58 PM CDT

Revenue sharing... (0.00 / 0)

... for Detroit? Dick, your buddies aren't going to like that one. Big Mistake.

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by: Hector Solon @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:56:43 PM CDT

His own Economic Director? (4.00 / 1)

do tell us your qualfications Amway Guy.

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

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by: Cordelia Lear @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 19:59:54 PM CDT

BOOM! Bermuda (4.00 / 1)

C'mon press, let's talk about that.

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by: wizardkitten @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:03:08 PM CDT

Estate tax too please (4.00 / 1)

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

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by: Cordelia Lear @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:06:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yes yes yes (4.00 / 1)

she whomped him good on both of those things- let's see if the press picks up on it.

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by: wizardkitten @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:10:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Great performance by the Governor (4.00 / 1)

I can't think of any slam-dunk moments that Dickie got in... but JG sure had plenty.

I'm guessing the Bermuda thing is gonna play pretty big.

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by: land of the free @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:03:44 PM CDT

Petty, I know... (4.00 / 1)

But....shouldn't the fact that he looks like a crazed gerbil count against him?

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by: go_dem @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:07:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

naw (0.00 / 0)

with those glasses, he just looks so smart, I don't even notice that he doesn't actually answer any questions nor has any substance to his entire "plan" for Michigan.

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by: land of the free @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 at 21:49:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

devos had a bad finish (4.00 / 2)

I don't think he "closed" very well.  The public transportation thing seemed to catch him off guard, and his depiction of the debate in his closing statements didn't match what actually happened in the debate at all.

On the other hand, I thought that Granholm's "comparative" points in her closing statement were highly effective.

Check out my mediocre blog.

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by: nirmal @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:04:38 PM CDT

Reminded me of Bush 41 in the 1992 debates (4.00 / 1)

When that mother of three asked DeVos "why should I stay in Michigan," DeVos talked past her and recited his talking points. The governor talked directly to her, and said that she, too was married to a small businessman and had three kids.

It was like Bush's scripted answer versus Clinton talking to the woman who asked the original question in that debate.

Please read "Out of Iraq: A Practical Plan for Withdrawal Now" by George McGovern and William R. Polk.

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by: Hy Dudgeon @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:05:35 PM CDT