Granholm wins (of course)

Let's talk about Bermuda, shall we? (4.00 / 2)

Heh.

Got him.

How MUCH in taxes did you avoid there, Dick? All that overseas money stored in Bermuda, is it?

Inquiring minds and all. 

Billions and billions of untaxed profit.

Let's hear about that s'more.

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by: wizardkitten @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:24:26 PM CDT

Yeah... (4.00 / 3)

I like that bermuda card...sounds like DeVos's firing governor sugued into commercials...bermuda would make a good commercial.

Just how much money did you hide from us?  Can we trust you with anything?

Pray for the dead, fight like hell for the living. - Mother Jones

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by: chanupi @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:26:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bermuda: Read it First at Michigan Liberal (4.00 / 2)

See Hector Solon's comment from last week:

The mysterious Dick DeVos' Bermuda company "Apple Hold Co., L.P.” (SEC filing):

This Rule 13e-3 transaction statement on Schedule 13E-3 (this "Schedule  13E-3") is being filed jointly by New AAP Limited, a Bermuda corporation ("New AAP"), Apple Hold Co., L.P., a Bermuda limited partnership ("Apple Hold Co."), Amway Asia Pacific Ltd., a Bermuda corporation ("AAP"), Richard M. DeVos, Jr.

(Break)
On November 15, 1999, Amway Asia Pacific, New AAP and Apple Hold Co. entered into a tender offer and amalgamation agreement providing for the tender offer, the principal shareholders, other than the charitable foundations that tendered their shares pursuant to the tender offer, contributed 46,814,950 shares to Apple Hold Co. As a result of the tender offer, the principal shareholders, as limited partners of Apple Hold Co. indirectly beneficially own 97.4% of the shares. 

(break)
“Apple Hold Co., L.P.” has been a Group Member with the following 10 Group Members:
Amway Asia Pacific Ltd
Amway Corporation
Ap New Co. LLC
Jay Van Andel
Jay Van Andel Trust
New Aap Limited
New Aap Ltd
RDV Corporation
Richard M. DeVos, Jr
Stephen A. Van Andel

Aside: Just how many of DeVos' companies are registered in Bermuda anyway?

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:52:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Betsy's Beach Wear (0.00 / 0)

One of Hector's posts over at Kos mentioned that Betsy has a clothing company in Bermuda.  I can't remember the company name, but it was hiliarious--even funnier than calling a closet organizing company Windquest.  If anybody remembers what it was, please help out.

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by: eartha651 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:26:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Shipwreck Sportswear? (4.00 / 1)

Think it was Shipwreck Sportswear in Jamaica.  After all, the wife of an expert yachtsman must have appropriate attire.

Anyone have any luck in tracking down this company that Hector suggests was using sweatshop labor in Central America?

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:34:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You got it (0.00 / 0)

I thought you were kidding when you posted it, so I went over to Kos and looked it up:  http://www.dailykos....

Shipwreck aptly describes Dick's performance tonight.

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by: eartha651 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:41:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Detroit News (4.00 / 1)

Picks up on it.

Granholm again attacked DeVos on the tax question, saying that while president of Amway parent company Alticor Inc. he set up corporate subsidiaries in Bermuda to avoid U.S. taxes.

"You know that's not true and you're doing it again," DeVos replied. "That's disappointing."

Yes, Dick, I'm sure that was disappointing to you.

It sure was disappointing to us to know that you are avoiding paying taxes on all that money.

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by: wizardkitten @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 21:25:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And of course (4.00 / 2)

the Detroit News will never investigate the issue. Heaven forbid - they may find something they don't like, or don't want to tell.

"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." The Importance of Being Earnest, Act I, Oscar Wilde, 1895

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by: Cordelia Lear @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 21:54:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

They are really something (4.00 / 1)

Go read the editorial on the debate- but only if you haven't eaten anything in awhile. It's nauseating.

Bring on the Pepto Bismol!

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by: wizardkitten @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:16:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hoffman story now has it too (0.00 / 0)

Updated AP story-

Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer said afterward that Amway incorporated a company called Amway Asia Pacific Ltd. in Bermuda. The subsidiary, formed in 1993, was a public company at the time but later was taken private.

"The reason you go to Bermuda is to evade taxes," Brewer said. "It's a well-known tax haven."

Rob Zeiger, corporate communications director at Alticor Inc., Amway's parent company, said the company incorporated several foreign subsidiaries in Bermuda but didn't avoid paying any taxes.

The TV ad starts tomorrow.

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by: wizardkitten @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:37:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Stupid tax law... (0.00 / 0)

I didn't avoid paying taxes, I avoided paying a 'tax penalty'.  The pesky tax law basically forced me to put my money in Bermuda... honestly Gov, do you think I'm going to pay taxes?  Ha...

Love,
Dick

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by: BigBri78 @ Tue Oct 17, 2006 at 20:54:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bermuda Triangle (4.00 / 1)

According to tax experts at Citizens for Tax Justice, Amway has tried to avoid paying taxes on its investments by "parking" them in its foreign subsidiaries.

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by: peonista @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:07:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Whiniest moment (4.00 / 3)

When he said "she's doing it again!"  I think it was after the bermuda remark, but will have to check the transcript to be sure.

Insert "Mommy" in front of his response and "wahhh! wahhh!" afterward, and you've got it.

That was fun.

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by: eartha651 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:28:19 PM CDT

Whiner, Not Tough Enough? (4.00 / 2)

Is Dick DeVos Tough Enough to be Governor?

I've just about had enough of it!

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:34:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

At first... (4.00 / 3)

I was a little nervous.  When Amway had his opening monologue scripted and down pat, he sounded confident and strong.

But when he had to engage in debate, he floundered, reverted to cheap, empty talking points, and shouted at all of the questioners.

Granholm stayed composed, cool, and stood up to Amway.  She showed her strong leadership, command of the issues, and knew how to take down her opponent.

I LOOOOVED how she kept bringing back:
"How are you going to fund all of this?  How are you going to fund all of this while cutting at least $1bn from the State budget?  We're not Washington, and we just can't print our own money."

He never responded to that charge.  Ev-er.  Granholm came out as the one with a strong business sense and command of fiscal responsibility, while still emphasising funding for 21st century jobs, education, and healthcare.

And her closing monologue?  Price-LESS!  If the media cannot pick up on that as a perfect way to break down the two candidates, then they quite simply are not. doing. their. job.

Way to close, Guv!  Can't wait to go Door-to-Door for you this week!

-- Signature! --

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by: quaker21 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:31:31 PM CDT

Strong Opening, Fades Fast (4.00 / 1)

Scripted opening was definitely DDV's high point.  First two questions and I thought "whoa! we have something here".then of course, DDV reverted to form.  At several key points (Education being one of them) he simply ignored the question and relied on talking points.  The cliches flew fast and furious and he lapsed into the sing-song that has been his verbal trademark.

fwiw, I liked the glasses.  From theatre, I know that even a small item can change your sense of self, and thereby alter your performance.  I think glasses were nice stagecraft.

But by the end, JG won.

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by: Harris @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:23:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

New Glasses (0.00 / 0)

Those glasses are different than others he's sported on the campaign trail.

Dick DeVos has more outfits than a Ken Doll.

Betsy DeVos has more shoes than Imelda Marcos.

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 22:32:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Any polls to freep? (4.00 / 1)

DN and WJR don't seem to be doing one this time around. Anyone else spot any?

"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never." - Winston S. Churchill

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by: matt @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:31:57 PM CDT

Not even at WZZM (4.00 / 1)

Very strange.

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by: wizardkitten @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:38:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What the Heck Has the Dick Every Done Other Than Have A Rich Daddy? (4.00 / 3)

Nothing, the Dick has done nothing that matters other than pick a rich Daddy. As Demwave detailed today, the Dick is Michigan's version of a miserable failure. That is why he was ran out of Amway, retired at 46? Yeah, and Mike Cox can be trusted with women and kids. What a pathetic whinny little Rich Dicky.

It is all GOTV at this point, from now until 8 pm November 7th everyone who cares needs to do whatever they can to Get Out The Vote!

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by: williamsman @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:32:52 PM CDT

Dick DeVos Has A Record of Failure (4.00 / 1)

He .

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:37:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Si si. (4.00 / 2)

And I loved the (lies) that he not only:
1. Started with a small business.
but also...
2. Turned it around.

All we need to reference is DemWave's awesome diary on this topic.  And anyone who knows anything about Amway know both are false statements.

-- Signature! --

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by: quaker21 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:39:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Dick DeVos Has a Record of Failure (4.00 / 2)

He just can't get the job done.

Will he ever prove to Daddy DeVos that he can accomplish something on his own?

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:57:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Amway Guy is an Expert Whiner (4.00 / 2)

As a billionaire, he can afford only the finest whines.

Keeps them in his whine cellar.

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:35:44 PM CDT

A bigger and better Dick? (4.00 / 2)

Does it seem like the Dick was bad in the first debate (awful) on purpose?  He's been playing the 'Granholm is an excellent speaker' card even before the first debate.  I was watching WZZM in GR and they were talking about how much he improved.  He really made an effort to storm out of the gate tonight, glasses and all! He improved in each debate significantly, in order to make it appear he was winning... maybe I'm just confused ;)

My 2 year old son has improved his speaking ability in the last few weeks also...

...so good for you Dick

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by: BigBri78 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:47:08 PM CDT

a bigger and better Dick (4.00 / 2)

How many Dicks can one nation stand?

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by: peonista @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:50:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

debate (4.00 / 4)

He is a puppet man like Bush. He can do fine with the scripted stuff written by his speech writers but cannot hold his own in a real debate. I hate his saccarine sincere tone. Give me a break.
I loved Granholm's mention of the interstate commerce act in response to the trash question. Devos was full of it on his retort. Hopefully he understands the constitutional issue and knows full well we can't raise fees selectively.

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by: peonista @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:48:38 PM CDT

There's a better answer... (4.00 / 2)

...I just don't know it.

-Love, Dick

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by: BigBri78 @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 20:51:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

DeVos knows Constitutional Law? Hah! (4.00 / 3)

Remember his comments about abortion in the first debate? I truly believe that he doesn't understand that judges decide questions of constitutional law.

Please read "Out of Iraq: A Practical Plan for Withdrawal Now" by George McGovern and William R. Polk.

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by: Hy Dudgeon @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 21:00:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Dick Don't Know Dick (4.00 / 3)

Agree.  Dick does not know constitutional law.

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by: DemWave @ Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 21:13:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]