Happy Mission Accomplished Day

Too bad we can't sue them for their lies (0.00 / 0)

We can't bring back the lives lost or repair the broken bodies and minds, but if we could sue the Republican Party for damages incurred because of their lies we'd strike a blow where it would hurt them the most - their wallets.

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by: KS @ Tue May 01, 2007 at 17:43:35 PM CDT

there or here? (1.25 / 4)

The radical jihadists have made it very clear, they plan on destroying western civilization was we know it...specifically the United States of America.

They have repeatedly said that Iraq is important to them.  They need to defeat the U.S. there, take the oil fields and use them as their bank to finance terror around the world.

Yes, there have been mistakes made.  And I'm sure there will be more.

However, the war on terror is unfortunately going to be with us a long time and it is growing.

Please see the following post for a revealing analysis of what we are up against:

http://migop.blogs.c...

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by: sanuzis @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:57:20 AM CDT

Yes, here or there ... where do you want to fight the Iraqi Shiites? (0.00 / 0)

We aren't fighting "radical jihadists" in Iraq.  We're in the middle of a civil war that we caused with our hamhanded, incompetent reconstruction.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:20:32 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Go get 'em tiger! (4.00 / 1)

http://64.233.167.10...

To prepare for when your life flashes before your eyes, make sure it's fun to watch.

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by: JNelson @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:21:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just curious Sauli (0.00 / 0)

do you support a draft and tax increase to support the War on Terror?

If it is as important to our country as you suggest, then to not support what I just posted would lead me to believe that you are a coward and a traitor...

So which is it?

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 10:49:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

So why has your party abandoned the fight against terrorism? (0.00 / 0)

About the 'fighting them here vs. fighting them there' claim: Experts agree that the war has emboldened our enemies and made the US more vulnerable. Because of the Iraq War, the jihadists of whom you speak are now more powerful, while the likelihood of having to fight the terrorists here is inching up more and more every day, because the Administration has refused to 'fight them there.'

In short, because of Iraq, we may just have to 'fight them here.'

Great Lakes, Great Times, Great Scott

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by: ScottyUrb @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:04:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm all for a Republican draft. (4.00 / 2)

The families of Saul, DeVos, Bush, and every Republican (and Democrat) that defends this war needs to have themselves over there, or if they're too old, send their kids.

They'll never do that, though, because they're all cowards.  They'll tell you how this war is necessary to defend freedom, blah blah blah, but when push comes to shove they'd rather somebody else do it.

There's people of every political stripe who has served in Iraq (including my bleeding heart liberal self), and I respect every one of them.  But chickenhawks have no place in this country.  Not when our military is stretched to the breaking point like this.

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.

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by: djtyg @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:20:21 AM CDT

Democrats & Liberals support the draft... (1.17 / 6)

We have an all volunteer army, folks from all walks of life are serving our country.  Repubicans & Democrats.

The Democrats want to "force" folks to pay taxes, serve in the military and whatever else they "determine" society should have one do?

There are many who support and/or oppose the war...but it has nothing to do with wether they or someone in their family is serving.

The draft is unnecessary...and the Democrat majority in Congress hasn't proposed one?

Thanks for your willingness to serve, but your commentary about "chickenhawks" is little more than political posturing.

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by: sanuzis @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 14:11:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Answer the question I asked... (4.00 / 3)

If this struggle is as important as you suggest, that the future of our country and democracy itself is in peril...that this is the struggle of our generation...

As you said:

The radical jihadists [sic] have made it very clear, they plan on destroying western civilization was [sic] we know it...specifically the United States of America.

Why don't you support a draft and raising of taxes to mobilize the entire country behind this effort?

One more time for the really slow:

do you support a draft and tax increase to support the War on Terror?

If it is as important to our country as you suggest, then to not support this would lead me to believe that you, Saul Anuzis, are a coward and a traitor...

So which is it?

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 14:47:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

On another note... (4.00 / 2)

Sauli said:

The Democrats want to "force" folks to pay taxes, serve in the military and whatever else they "determine" society should have one do?

Stupid FDR, drafting people and raising taxes to fight Nazis and Imperial Japan....

How stupid to mobilize the entire nation against a threat, what did you call it Saul? Oh yeah:

The radical jihadists [sic] have made it very clear, they plan on destroying western civilization was [sic] we know it...specifically the United States of America.

As important as WWII...but if we mobilize the country in support of such a great cause we are somehow harming America...

And you wonder why the nation is starting to realize you and your buddies in your party are a complete joke Sauli...

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by: Nazgul35 @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 14:53:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh good gravy... (4.00 / 1)

We have an all volunteer army, folks from all walks of life are serving our country.  Repubicans & Democrats.

You are absolutely correct.  And, while I acknowledge that you can support the war without actually having served in the military*, I wonder if you fully appreciate what kind of damage is being done by constantly cycling in units that aren't fully equipped, not properly trained in ever-changing counterinsurgency tactics, and haven't had the proper amount of rest and recovery time to regain their fighting strength.

*--Back in the day, before I deployed overseas for the first time (Navy, 1994-98), some dude kept telling me that it was my duty to go over and kill Serbs.  "I want nothing to do with that conflict," I'd tell him, and he'd pretend that I'd said nothing.  Finally, I said, "Dave, if you think it'd be so wonderful to kill Serbs, go take the oath and join the Marines.  If it comes to it, they'll hand you a rifle and let you kill a bellyful."  To his credit, he dropped out of graduate school, joined the Army as an intelligence specialist, and spent time in the Balkans.  So, it's hardly unprecedented that someone who advocates sending others to go fight a war actually disrupt their own lives and go themselves.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 15:53:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Saul doesn't care... (0.00 / 0)

He doesn't even think people should have to pay taxes to support the troops, what the hell does he care if the military is breaking?

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.

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by: djtyg @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:45:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I care a lot... (0.00 / 1)

I never said that, you seem to be making a whole lot of assumptions based on who knows what?

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by: sanuzis @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:10:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe that's because (0.00 / 0)

you never address any points raised by anyone or answer any questions asked...

In short, a typical Republican talking points vomitfest...

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by: Nazgul35 @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:57:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes you did. (0.00 / 0)

The Democrats want to "force" folks to pay taxes

Where do you think money for our equipment comes from, let alone our paychecks?  You don't care if we come back home alive, so long as the super-rich get their tax break.

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.

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by: djtyg @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:33:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Those who serve (0.00 / 0)

There are many who support and/or oppose the war...but it has nothing to do with wether they or someone in their family is serving.

That's a cop-out if I ever heard one. It's easy to support a war as long as you never have to make any sacrifices for it.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

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by: BZP @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 22:52:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh come on... (0.00 / 1)

Everyone is NOT serving...most are supporting...ill informed and ignorant are oppossing.

If we don't fight them there...they will fight us here.

Listen to what they say...not us...they want you dead or Muslim?!?

Can America and liberals really be that ignorant?

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by: sanuzis @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 00:29:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Tom Clancy's "Op Center" isn't a good guidebook for foreign policy (0.00 / 0)

This gets my vote for silliest post this calendar year.  They're the kind of sentiments I might have thought were serious argument back when I was 15.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:41:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

What planet are you living on? (0.00 / 0)

Everyone is NOT serving...most are supporting...ill informed and ignorant are oppossing.

CNN Poll: 58% of Americans want Iraq withdrawal by 2008 or sooner

Detroit News: 67% of Michiganians disagree with Bush's handling of the war

Pew: 36% of Americans think Surge will work; Solid majority favors Congressional troop deadline

So the 67% percent of Michigan residents who oppose the war are ignorant and ill-informed? Gee, that sounds like a winning campaign message for 2008.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

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by: BZP @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:44:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

SO if it is that important (0.00 / 0)

I will ask again and type really S-L-O-W-L-Y for you Sauli:

1) Why haven't you signed up?

I know that if I believed it was as serious as WWII as you seem to think it is, I would drop everything and defend my country...not spend time at a country club...

2) Why don't you support raising taxes?

At no time in American history have we ever cut taxes during war...it is idiotic and shows exactly why Republicans are full of shit, that they don't mean anything they say about this war.

3) Why don't you support a draft?

If they are the next coming of Hitler and all...surely we should mobilize our entire country to defeat this threat...

Either you are a lying sack of sh*t Sauli or you are a traitor and a coward...

Which is it?

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by: Nazgul35 @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:01:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Use your spell check, troll. (4.00 / 1)

It's spelled DemocratIC Congress, not Democrat Congress.

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.

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by: djtyg @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 14:24:30 PM CDT

not in my spell check... (0.00 / 1)

Democrat...is not necessarily Democratic.

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by: sanuzis @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 00:30:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Saul, you really are ignorant and a coward. (0.00 / 0)

I served with Arabs and Muslims in Iraq.  You spit on their service by accusing them of being terrorists.

Make people pay taxes?  That's been done throughout civilization!  And those tax dollars paid for my food, armor, clothing, bullets, rifle, and shelter while I was in Iraq.  But I guess you want to make that support optional.

As for "fighting them over there so we don't fight them over here", please.  We're already fighting them over here.  Just last week we had an attempted terrorist attack in Texas.  And the guy was neither Arab or Muslim.  And that doesn't even count for the 65+ terrorist attacks we've had since 9/11!

Besides, when you say that OIF is about defending freedom, and yet don't want to go over there and fight, what you're really saying is either a. You don't really believe that we're defending freedom.  Or b. You're too scared to put your life on the line to defend America.  So you're either a liar or a coward.  Which is it?

I suppose you're not all patriotic, since you like calling Americans "ignorant", but I digress.  Since 2/3rds of Americans want us out of Iraq, that would make us the majority.  You're very nearly fringe in your support.  And it will be that support that gets your ass kicked again in 2008.

But don't worry, we'll be there again to give you an endorsement and make sure that you stay head of the MRP.  After all, we really like winning.

BTW-Don't thank me for my service.  You thanked me right after you said that Americans shouldn't even have to pay the taxes that pay for my equipment, training, or food.  So don't patronize me or any of the other brave men and women that serve.

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.

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by: djtyg @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:09:26 AM CDT

Correction (0.00 / 1)

I never and don't accuse Arabs and Muslims of being terrorists...I'm not sure how you came up with that statement.

I didn't spit on anyone's service or on anyone period.

There is a small and violent group of extremists who are terrorists.

Asking a rhetorical question does not mean your "calling" Americans anything...we have all kinds.

Iraq is part of a bigger battle on terror.  I wish we could stop all terror around the world, let alone here. But if you turn over Iraq to the terrorist, I think it is safe to say you will have funded their activities for decades to come.

I want to get out of Iraq, I think everyone does.  The question is under what conditions.  At "cut and run" strategy of leaving before there is some stability does not make sense to me.  Politicizing the effort by the Democrats is not healthy or helpful.  It only emboldens our enemies.

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by: sanuzis @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:02:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You know what... (0.00 / 0)

The war was politicized the day it was pitched.  If you didn't get on board with it, you were called a coward, a terrorist-lover, an appeaser, and an America-hater.  You were also invited to move to Cuba, North Korea, and Iraq, where you're kind would be welcomed with open arms.

So you can take this:

Politicizing the effort by the Democrats is not healthy or helpful.

...and respectfully cram it with walnuts.

But if you turn over Iraq to the terrorist, I think it is safe to say you will have funded their activities for decades to come.

If you turn it over to the Iraqi people, then they will take care of al-Qaida, which is a foreign-based insurgency that draws its localized popular support from of our continued presence.  No U.S., no localized popular support.  No localized popular support, no al-Qaida in Iraq.

That's basic counterinsurgency.

Among the Trees

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by: Eric B. @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:46:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Then I guess we should have left (0.00 / 0)

Saddam alone then, shouldn't we...

Perhaps if Republicans would stop using our military to try and win election we wouldn't be in this idiotic situation.

The truth is Sauli, that you and your fellow Republicans are cowards and traitors. Everything you do weakens and destroys the things that people whose shoes you couldn't find a ladder high enough to stand on to kiss their shoe built.

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by: Nazgul35 @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:06:56 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're also a liar, Saul... (0.00 / 0)

I never and don't accuse Arabs and Muslims of being terrorists

You sourced an article that said Muslims are taught by their religion to be terrorists.  In doing so you spat on the service of the Muslims I worked with in Iraq.

Iraq is part of a bigger battle on terror.  I wish we could stop all terror around the world, let alone here. But if you turn over Iraq to the terrorist, I think it is safe to say you will have funded their activities for decades to come.

I want to get out of Iraq, I think everyone does.  The question is under what conditions.  At "cut and run" strategy of leaving before there is some stability does not make sense to me.  Politicizing the effort by the Democrats is not healthy or helpful.  It only emboldens our enemies.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  And bin Laden isn't in Iraq, which is why I'm against this war to begin with.  I want to go after the real terrorists, not a country just because it has a bunch of people who look the same as those who attacked us.  95% of the fighters in Iraq are insurgents-Iraqi citizens who are tired of our presence.  And now they're fighting each other in a civil war.  I don't want to be a part of an Arab civil war.

You first said that if we left Iraq the terrorist would follow us home.  Now you're saying they'd stay in Iraq and take control of their government.  You're contradicting yourself.  You're also not paying attention.  I already told you that we had an attempted terrorist attack in our country JUST LAST WEEK, let alone the dozens that we've had since 9/11 from domestic terrorists who didn't go away after the towers fell.  So the idea of "there or here" is a false option.

You're also ignoring history.  After we withdrew from Vietnam we still beat the commie fucks.  And they didn't follow us home.

In the end, you just want to run out the clock until we get a Democratic President anyway.  Then we'll all have a good laugh as getting out of Iraq suddenly becomes a bipartisan initiative.

BTW-If you didn't like the politicization of war, then your party shouldn't have shamelessly used 9/11 to push a conservative agenda.  You started this.  And you didn't answer my question: Are you a liar or just a coward?

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.

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by: djtyg @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:50:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Answer... (0.00 / 1)

Not a liar, just disagree with you.

Not a coward, just never joined the military.

The "article" I sourced is very interesting and thought provoking.  I read lots of things that I don't agree with, would source them and lead others to them for a good debate and/or discussion on any topic.

Isn't politics fun!

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by: sanuzis @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:30:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Either.... (0.00 / 0)

A. You believe OIF has nothing to do with defending freedom (despite your saying otherwise)

or

B. You believe it does, but you don't believe freedom is worth fighting for.

Funny how you disregarded everything else I said.  Maybe you're both a liar and a coward.  Too much of a pansy to fight for freedom, and yet you know that Iraq has nothing to do with it.

As for "debate", it's kinda hard to have a debate on your website when you're the only one that's talking.  Besides, you cited it as a "revealing analysis of what we're up against", and in doing so said we're up against the entire Islamic religion instead of just a few fundamentalist idiots.  So you did spit on the service of those who are braver than you for nothing more than their choice of religion.

You also, along with the Bush administration, have continued to ignore the threat of domestic terrorists.  How many more people have to die so you can play politics instead of doing what's good for the people?

Putting conservatives in charge of our government makes about as much sense as GM hiring a CEO who hates cars.

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by: djtyg @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:06:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]